December 2006
I wrote my first article about air quality in Kraków,
based on the data from the Regional Inspectorate of Environment Protection [WIOŚ].
The same type of data that we use today,
based on the same air monitoring stations,
from which the data was collected.
And at the time it was a challenge for me
to persuade my editorial staff to have this article published.
We're not talking about front-page news here
but about waiting for a few days to have it published anywhere.
Does the old stereotype still persist among Poles that if you rely on public transport to get to work,
it means you're not doing too well in general?
Very badly, indeed.
There is no need to advertise Kraków's public transport outside Kraków.
It already has a much-deserved, positive reputation in Poland.
We get awards for that as a city.
City officials get awards on that account.
It seems to me that transport professionals from across Poland are looking at what is happening in our city.
However, I completely agree that
there is a need to promote public transport in Kraków, in the city itself.
The level of social awareness is definitely far behind,
In other words, in this area we are not catching up as fast as in economy-related matters.
The most important thing in Kraków now, when it comes to air pollution?
Education, education, education!
What I mean, of course, is to attract more attention
to very low standards of
purely educational content.
We talk about the number of heaters replaced,
But you do realise this criticism very much applies to your professional category as well, don't you?
To myself as well, in fact. Right?
As long as people, the city's inhabitants,
don't understand all of these actions make sense,
not only when it takes the form of bans,
but that it makes sense because it translates directly to their quality of life,
their comfort of life will depend on it.
Until it's properly explained to them, until they really understand it,
battling pollution
will only be confined to bans and fines, rather than a collective effort.
Which begs the question: we're talking about culture, about the city's festivals on offer,
about how much effort the city is making to build a very strong international brand.
Against this background, would you describe communication in English,
originating from Kraków, as important or is it a waste of time?
A bulletin in Ukrainian has just been launched in Wrocław,
for Ukrainians living there.
So let us not deceive ourselves.
If it makes sense to launch a periodical written in Ukrainian for the benefit of Ukrainians,
Then, it most certainly makes sense for Kraków to create content in English,
about air quality, adopted improvement measures,
to make air quality better in Kraków,
about what city authorities do about it, what we do about it, and what is going on in general.
There's no doubt in my mind that
enough foreigners live in the city
and I'm sure they will read it.
I'm not sure you realise you have been invited to this interview as a victim.
You'll find out why in a moment.
I'd like to talk about the professional group you represent.
You don't need to be an expert in the field to realise
that the topic of air quality, especially in a city like Kraków,
is a very convenient one from a journalist's perspective.
First of all, it's sensational in nature,
Secondly, it automatically makes you want to target a tangible enemy,
a person or an institution that you can launch your attack against,
- The guilty party, yes. - And thirdly, there's the personal dimension.
Every journalist, yourself included, lives in this city.
Between 1995 and 2005, transport related pollution represented the biggest percentage.
It was then that Poles started buying poor grades of coal,
because it was allowed [permitted], as we got rid of coal quality norms in stocks,
so there was more and more of it, and it was much, much cheaper,
and let's be quite frank here, when Poles saw that prices of electricity and gas were going up,
and coal was getting cheaper,
there was nothing left for them but to take out the built-in electric heater,
and rely on coal again.
Low emissions are a dominant source in Kraków for a number of reasons:
First of all, we shifted back to coal because it's cheap.
Secondly, a large number of coal heaters is located in the part of the city
which are situated at the bottom of the valley.
Thirdly, Kraków is in fact situated in a basin,
which makes the natural air ventilation much more of a challenge.
It's hardly ever windy in here, in other words, so the dust doesn't get out of the valley as it should,
Last but not least, we are surrounded by villages
where coal is still the primary source of heat.
A certain generation of journalists
has long indulged a conviction that
Kraków has successfully dealt with the problem.
We all agree that social activism is absolutely necessary,
we agree that the past decade of social activism was very much called for,
however, after a while,
a question comes to mind whether the serious percentage of the things we do,
against everything else,
should not focus on clearly unifying, constructive approach to things.
- Is it already here or not? - No, it's not.
Startups such as Airly provide sensors
that are also installed in the towns and villages surrounding Kraków,
and create access to real-time data about air quality on any given day,
both in towns and villages around Kraków and the city itself.
The current density of sensors available has no other precedent in Poland.
No other city in Poland has comparable monitoring infrastructure,
Wait a minute, I'd like to rattle you a little more first,
You mentioned December 2006,
when you first tried to publish an article about air quality
and no one was interested.
Then, KAS [Krakowski Alarm Smogowy] was established,
and a number of bottom-up initiatives emerge, targeting different persons, institutions and entities.
- Years of collective City Hall flogging follow, with the city portrayed as guilty of air quality in Kraków,
- Then, not only the City Hall.
The City Hall's first reactions are defensive,
Stemming from the underlying conviction that Kraków is not the most problematic city in this area,
and that this label has become part of the city identity somewhat unfairly.
So there is some defensive communication,
which provokes journalists even more,
but I'd like to ask you:
PROPOSALS
Many years have passed since 2006.
Eleven, to be exact.
After all those years,
taking everyone into account, including journalists and activists,
would you say that the air-quality debate and all efforts to make Kraków's air quality better,
is still dominated by hate-speech, flogging, launching attacks and overall aggression, or,
attempts by any of the parties involved to unite all these voices around a profound and valuable cause.
I would rather say that when things started, there was more focus on facts and substance.
Back then, different organisations really united in a joint effort.
- Really? - And what's happening today is
that in addition to Krakowski Alarm Smogowy, who could afford a degree of operational freedom,
a number of other organisations emerge,
politicians have certain ambitions,
and it is only now that the 'meme race' is starting.
As a result, everyone is trying to create impact.
As a consequence, even Krakowski Alarm Smogowy
is beginning to function in this area,
in this way.
I'm talking about taking advantage of memes,
Memes themselves are simply a tool, aren't they?
One can use them better or worse
But there is definitely a race underway to grab readers' attention.
And that's troublesome.
Because this race is no longer about substance, it's about fireworks.
We have excellent public transport,
we are building a network of roads,
but our heads are 10, 15 years behind us, at least.
The Netherlands are a very good example of 'reversed situation'.
There is a perception in the Netherlands,
that those who use bikes on a regular basis
think that only the poor use public transport,
because they are too lazy to even ride a bike.
In other words, common perceptions are quite the opposite.
And that's what I meant when I said that our heads are still far behind this type of progress.
We still think a little differently,
against the relative progress our country has made in terms of economic development.
Unfortunately, in this area [recycling], Kraków leads the way.
Interestingly enough, of all big Polish cities, Warsaw is the worst.
- Really? - Really.
Would you agree that public transport promotion simply cannot afford to be conventional?
That it has to have a strong 'storytelling' twist to it? It needs to be creatively really smart!
It's not about simply saying, e.g. "We've bought 71 new buses"
- It cannot be as simple as that! - That's what I wanted to say.
- It's about something deeper than that. - Today, the biggest challenge in public transport,
is to successfully invite those people who treat their cars as the most comfortable solution,
a comfortable way of moving around the city.
We still remember the times when people boarded trains through the windows,
when they wanted to get to the seaside.
We're following a very similar route to that of Western societies, Western Europe.
However, they didn't do it in 25 years but in 50 or 70 years.
Recently, we posted some research results on "Kraków O2" [Facebook air-quality community page],
originally published by a startup, a technology company, in partnership with MIT.
It was a broad, international survey, and one of its outcomes said that
39% of the Dutch use a bike at least once a week, either for commuting or getting something done.
The Dutch could hardly be described as poor,
and of course we are quick to jump to conclusions like 'they have flat terrain all over',
- which is an absurd excuse. - It's not a real argument.
Cyclists look down on those who use public transport,
Because just like we're trying to persuade people to use trams and buses,
because it is healthy, it creates more free space in the city,
reduces pollution.
They, on the other hand, think that going somewhere by bus or a tram is scandalous,
because one should use one's own muscles instead.
This is how you should move around, instead of leaving dust from brakes or car wheels behind you,
in the air that we all breathe.
Frankly speaking, Warsaw has a much bigger problem than Kraków,
Once we've succeeded in replacing those coal-fired heaters,
If the Marshall's Office is successful in cooperating with the boroughs surrounding Kraków,
Then, I really believe that
by 2025 we'll stop exceeding the norms day after day.
The data says that there were 24 000 such old-type heaters in the city.
In 2016, 4240 heaters were eliminated.
This year, over 7000 applications were signed,
which means we'll soon be left with less than 10 000.
Based on the data you have access to, as a journalist, does it mean that
when in 2020 Bartosz Piłat decides to stand on the Piłsudski Mound,
this beautiful, rusty colour will disappear from above the city?
- No. - Why aren't you creating content,
as large Polish newspapers, that could be useful at schools?
There is no sense of mission,
Instead, there is this never-ending rivalry of trying to attract readers' attention,
Would you call this 'journalism to please the crowd'?
Most certainly, I would.
Much is being written about Kraków on the outside,
also in the context of air quality.
You see tourists wearing masks in Kraków's Main Market.
All the way from Asia to Australia,
wearing HEPA filters, carbon filters and what not,
All these people must have read something, somewhere about air quality in Kraków.
I remember planning a flight to Norway.
There was a message on the webpage, in Norwegian,
with a word 'Kraków' in it.
I was quite shocked to read it [a notice for pregnant women traveling to Kraków]
It turned out that the message originated from the webpage of the Norwegian Ministry of Health,
They published an official position on their page.
I'm familiar with statistical information,
I know quite a lot about the sources of the problem,
at that time, however, I didn't realise how important it really is,
We've become so used to this air
that no one paid attention to the fact that just about every second day in winter,
emission norms were exceeded
by catastrophic levels
And then there is the historic reference,
people thinking 'it must have been worse in the past because of heavy industry',
'so the air must be better now, compared to what it was back then.'
In two years, we will quite likely have next to zero coal-fired heaters.
Only a few will be left, most likely.
Still, it will be a symbolic number.
Even though there is a completely new government in Warsaw, for two years now,
they didn't take a radical step backwards.
Even though they are associated with coal and the mining industry, they didn't turn back
from the 'anti-smog' measures adopted.
However, if you decided today to go to a housing estate where there is a need to replace the heating systems,
I bet that
people who agree to have those heaters replaced,
8 out of 10 would say: 'They are forcing us to do it, so we do it.'
And only 2
It's an informed guess, of course,
And only 2 would say: 'Yes, they need to be replaced because of cancer, heart attacks'
'because we're poisoning our neighbours'.
If someone decides to move to Kraków, together with their family,
they know there are international schools here, for their kids,
excellent living conditions,
general level of comfort and all that we've talked about,
But there are situations in Kraków's global companies,
at senior level, that a recruitment process is underway,
and there is a last-minute call saying:
'Sorry, my wife doesn't want to come with me. She's read somewhere about the air quality in Kraków'.
Would you say there is value in creating readily-available information channels,
for heads of big institutions, companies and corporations?
Something they could instantly reach for? A ready source of reliable data and information?
So that they can respond, e.g. 'Okay, we've read this on Bloomberg, in FT or WSJ'
'But take a look here. This is the most recent data, initiatives...'
There is no doubt in my mind we should have
an honest, transparent response to what is going on here.
Bartek,
If, in December, the City Hall decides to invite
a narrow, expert workshop for journalists,
intended to explore ideas and opportunities for journalists as a professional group,
focused on what they could and should do, as journalists,
to raise awareness,
which is what we've talked about across this whole interview,
to be able to translate their conclusions to specific 'products',
that inspire and incentivise other groups that may be willing to become part of the broader effort.
Do you think there are journalists in this city capable of thinking only in constructive terms
and submitting their ideas?
at a roundtable like this? Most certainly.
DECEMBER 2017
I have no doubt whatsoever that
as soon as they come out of their editorial confines,
of daily work,
they will be keen to cooperate,
and, secondly, they will contribute some very interesting, creative insights,
What happens next,
hard to tell.
And that's what we're counting on.
Bartosz Piłat, thank you very much for agreeing to this interview.
- Thank you. - Thank you.
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