Announcer: You're listening to the We Buy Houses Radio Show for street smart investing
tips, trends, and talk, with your host, Rick Otton, property investor and mentor.
Property investing made simple.
Rick: Hi everybody, it's Rick Otton speaking.
Welcome to the podcast.
Street smarts, tips, trends, and just about everything else about property, of course,
on our podcast.
And thanks for listening, because actually people listen to this podcast.
I mean, for a minute there I thought I was only myself.
Anyway, look, I'm speaking with Chris Dyce [SP], and we're over here, sitting here in
Athens, Greece.
Good day mate, how are you going?
Chris: Hi.
Good evening, Rick.
Rick: Okay.
So, I've come over here because I've heard all about the Greece disaster and the opportunities
in buying property in Greece.
So, what do you think they are?
I mean, big picture, everybody has heard about "Greece has dragged the EU down" and "Greece
is bad because Greece has done this and Greece has done this."
Now, I've been here long enough to see a totally different position.
And I have to say, I've seen absolute fantastic opportunity in property.
What do you think the opportunity is in property right now?
Chris: Rick, it's different me saying anything.
You've been here for a full week and you see that the city is completely different to what
people might think or what the media are conveying out to...internationally.
So, the opportunity in property is things are...is precisely in the fact that things
are at the rock bottom at the moment, property is at the rock bottom, people are unable to
buy, no bank loans, property taxes introduced very recently.
Rick: But you know, that's really quite funny.
Let me stop you there for two seconds.
First of all, when I had a guy the other day that [inaudible 00:01:43], right?
We met that guy at his property, and he actually said about a stage which is exciting, which
is the cost of rebuild is now more expensive than the purchase price.
We can actually buy the properties now in Greece for less money than what it would cost
to build the property.
That's super exciting.
And I love the fact that you guys brought up property tax, which is great, because...just
for the benefit, everybody, Greece didn't have a property tax, right?
And you know how we all pay different types of taxes in different countries.
I mean, the U.S., you pay some, like, city tax and school tax, in Australia you pay land
tax and every country has got tax, right?
Okay, hang on, you got to love this, right?
Because it just introduced a property tax in Greece, and when you guys hear how much
it is, and what I love about the fact, as Chris tells, as soon as you introduced it,
everybody said, "We're gonna dump our properties, sell our properties," because they've never
actually had a property tax before [inaudible 00:02:34]
Chris: There was no property tax whatsoever, and now there has been property tax introduced,
are you guys ready?
Is six cents for every thousand euros.
Rick: Okay, six cents for every thousand.
So if I've got a hundred thousand-euro property, what's my property per you?
Chris: Yeah, it's gonna be 600.
Rick: 600 bucks a year?
Chris: Yeah.
Rick: 50 bucks a month?
You guys have got a property tax of 50 bucks a month...
Chris: Well, a little...we do it differently.
Rick: It's just really quite funny, because it is actually peanuts, you realize that?
So it's absolutely peanuts, and of course somebody's going, "Oh my god, we've got property
tax of..."
I mean, I recall the other day just, "I've got property tax of 400 a year, I'm gonna
sell my property and lose €500,000 or whatever, to avoid paying the 400 a year."
I mean, it's great that you guys are so upset you've never had it before, everybody is,
like, reacting.
Actually, while I'm thinking about, I think the greatest opportunity I've seen in Greece,
everybody, is because what Greek people have never seen before, you started auctions a
couple of days ago?
Chris: Yeah, e-auctions on the 27th of June.
Rick: Yeah.
I mean, you never had auctions, now all of a sudden, guys, this is exciting, right?
The government is dumping all this property with auctions, but the Greeks won't buy it
because they don't trust auctions, they've never seen them before, right?
So, mate, the opportunity here, I just reckon, is just drooling.
I mean, you got...people go, "I've now got a property tax on my property of 600 a year
which I never have to have, so I better dump my property."
Now you got so many properties for sale, so many properties for sale.
Did you say to me that 52.8%, or was it 58.2% of all the property mortgages are in debt
or not being paid?
Chris: Okay, we've got 52.8% non-performing loans all together.
Rick: Yeah, I understand.
You have all the mortgages, pay mortgages, all sorts of short-term debt, retail debt,
52.8% isn't being paid, and I think what the most exciting thing was to come over here
and create a system, like drag all the solicitors in a room and create a system where you can
actually just pick up and assume all those unpaid debts from people who no longer wanna
pay them.
Chris: Yeah.
Rick: Oh man, is that exciting or what?
Chris: It's really exciting.
And what happens also is that people with portfolios end up paying lots in property
taxes.
But as I said, they were used differently.
Anyway, the habits have changed completely and people want to get rid of the properties.
Rick: Yeah now, it's just 85% of great people traditionally own a home.
Chris: Precisely, yes.
Rick: Now, it's is interesting, guys, because you have people in Germany is like 25% or
especially in, like, Holland, you know?
Some countries have a low range.
Australia's about 68%, and here you got a 85% home ownership rate.
So, when this whole thing collapsed, compared to where property prices were, what percentage
do you feel that the property prices have dropped from where they were to where they
are now?
Chris: Okay, we've got three tiers, we've got the grade A properties where they experienced
a drop by 30% in the grade A areas, then you've got the grade B areas where the properties
are now half price, 50%, and obviously you've got other areas where the prices have dropped
by 60% or 70%.
Rick: It's funny how you say we've got like three tiers.
[inaudible 00:05:59] wait, you got three tiers.
But guys, can I just tell you from experience, don't jump in on this stuff that's dropped
70%, because what you have in mind is the garbage property.
We have looked at some of that today, didn't we?
I mean, we even went to vandalize some buildings and we couldn't because they're already vandalized.
I mean, we couldn't find a non-graffitied building, I couldn't even put my initials
out there.
So, they're the properties we don't buy because they have dropped 70%, but it's garbage stuff.
And I learned this years ago, Doug [SP], [inaudible 00:06:29] there in Dallas 25 years ago, 27
years ago.
But they always say that the A grade, the Rolls Royce stuff, that fruit at the top of
the tree.
Not that it's dropped 30%, but the way that we can buy this is so exciting, we just pick
up the loans.
Chris: Absolutely, this is where the opportunity is.
We all know by now that the opportunity is on the terms you buy property.
The price is one thing, is the same for everybody, let's say, but the terms you can acquire property
or take control over the property is what really makes the opportunity here.
Rick: Yeah, because it's funny, some people go, you buy in price, right?
Now, I've had a look at what we could buy for €5 or €7, and I mean, it's cheap,
but you wouldn't wanna live there without a gun.
Or we bought another property for like €80,000, I think we could end up having like €250
per month for like 15 years or something, and rent it for €500 a month.
So it's like...you look at properties like that, which is better quality.
So, it's how you buy it and the way in which you pay for it, rather than the price.
What do you think is the hardest thing for people who are outsiders to get their head
around buying in Greece?
Or get involved in Greece?
Chris: First of all, it's the impression, the picture the people abroad have about Greece.
They think that it's a dead place, they think that the whole city is run down, they think
that there is nothing moving.
Which is...okay, as I said, is completely different me saying anything, you've been
here for long enough to share what the city is like, what the locations, the areas can
be like, and what the opportunity altogether can be like.
Because the banks are not lending, so we've got the following facts.
If you had a great credit score, maybe somebody in the family might have a couple of missed
payments, you're out.
Even if you had great credit score but now you've got different family circumstances,
and you've got two kids or your wife has lost her job, you are out.
So, people go and see properties, and what all the sellers have told us, is that people
are coming to see properties but they are actually dreaming the properties.
More dreaming the properties rather than being there to buy the properties.
Rick: They're dreaming of the opportunity rather than knowing how to take advantage
of the opportunity?
Chris: Yeah.
Rick: I'll tell you a couple of things I've learned since I've been here, which I think
is so exciting, right?
Like, we all hear about how, you know, Germany and the banks, right?
Germany has been saving Greece's ass, pouring all this money into Greece, Greece owes all
this money, and then the funny thing about it is all the massive infrastructure that's
being done, but it's all German.
Chris It's all German.
Rick: [inaudible 00:09:18] system but it has to be seen as German trains, right?
Chris: Indeed, that's the trade-off.
Rick: And then you have an airport, you need an airport, but it has to be run and owned
and built by the Germans.
It's like the Germans go, "All right, we're lending you billions of dollars as long as
all the work for all the infrastructure is German."
Right?
I reckon that's really quite funny, right?
Chris: And the maintenance thereafter, so long...
Rick: Yeah, that's it.
I just think it's funny how they go, "Oh, we spent all this money to Germany..."
It's like all the Germans go, "We spend all this money to Greece, the Greeks aren't paying
it back," but it all went to German companies that were contracted by Germany to do all
the work because...
Yeah, so everything in the whole place is kind of German, right?
You know, talking of, they've had two shots that every 60 years they come down here and
try and take over the place, right?
So, it's funny to see how that sort of works.
And also just to see how the perception of what reality is, compared to what reality
is.
You know, what people think is gonna happen.
You know, what you got?
Capital controls here for now two years, right?
Chris: Yeah, capital controls in place since July 15.
Rick: Okay.
So, let me ask you, when they did that by the way, I'm gonna guess that was an overnight
decision, there was no warning about that, they just went ahead and do it.
Chris: Absolutely.
You never get a warning for capital controls, Cyprus, nothing.
Rick: So here's the deal.
And guys, just so you know, when Cyprus had capital controls, that was for four years,
right?
Chris: That was for four years.
Rick: Okay, so we got capital controls.
Now, what does that actually mean to the man in the streets?
Just so people listening to the podcast know what that means, what does it mean?
Chris: Okay, people can withdraw up to €420 a week.
That's per, like, card you've got.
If you've got different accounts, you can do €420 from each account.
Or you can withdraw €840 every two weeks.
Rick: So, let's say you wanted to go and take your family to America for a month, and you
need about €5,000 to do that, you can't take that money out?
Chris: You can, because credit cards and e-transfers are fine, there is no limit, so you can do
that all day long.
Rick: All right.
But it's just if you just wanted to sort of...what if you wanna go and buy, like, a car for €15,000,
can you do that?
Chris: Yeah, you can.
Rick: All right.
But you just can't get the cash out?
Chris: Precisely.
Let's bring things back to the right dimension, what capital controls practically mean.
So you've got €420 to withdraw, and if the month has got like four-and-a-half weeks,
we end up with an amount of €1,800 or something.
So, how many people in Greece now earn €1,800?
So...
Rick: Oh, it comes out right.
I mean, the average guy in Greece, and I know it's hard to say the average guys, but what
do Greek people earn?
I mean, let's say you go to someone who's a clerk in a bank or something, right?
I mean, what is the average kind of...
Chris: Net take home income is €1,200.
Rick: How often?
Chris: Every month, let's say.
Rick: You're telling me that people here in Greece are working and walking out of here
with €1,200 a month after tax?
Chris: Yeah.
This is what the average salary is like at the moment.
Rick: Wow.
Yes, I think that's less, we're talking less than €300 a week.
Wow, that's really quite fascinating, isn't it?
Chris: Yeah.
People can get on with it because 85% own their own house, and then you get help from
the family, and they combine their circumstances really to adjust to what's going on.
Rick: Well, let's talk a little about your background.
You used to do property, or you do do property.
What type of property traditionally have you transacted in Greece yourself?
Chris: Okay.
I'm into property 19 years now, since 1999, and the typical transactions that I've done
range from build to sell, build to rent, title split, lease options over the years, buy,
refab, refinance, buy, refab, sell, pretty much all sorts of transactions.
Rick: Okay.
So, when you're not doing that...
Chris: Flats and houses, back to your original question.
Rick: Okay, flats and houses.
Now, one of the things I've noticed, you've got a lot of commercial stock here for sale.
Now, obviously that's hard to shift, so I'm gonna say that's a little bit for the...because
of the downturn of the market, right?
You said something that was very interesting, and everybody has a perception that Greece
is down on its knees.
The one thing I've noticed the time I've been here, going through all the shopping centers,
the restaurants, everything else, it's like nothing's in need of repair, it's like there's
enough money in the economy that everything looks like it should look.
It doesn't look like it's a beaten down place, it doesn't look like someone's gonna be flip-flopping,
beating the place around the ears kind of thing, right?
It actually looks like no one would ever know, from just being a part of the Greek economy,
that the Greek economy actually has any problems at all.
Chris: As you said, is the perception.
I've got the luxury, let's say, to be in and out all the time.
So, if you see things from a different perspective, you get to see the same trail across BBC,
ABC, all sorts of channels, which is back in 2015 when the capital controls were originally
imposed and they are stuck there.
There is nothing looking like what the media are giving out.
But yeah, you have to be here to see what it's like.
And you know what, if it is like this today, it can get only better.
Because if the economy is at the rock bottom and you see what you see, that the there is
enough money, the country is running, people are going to work in the morning, they're
taking the kids to school, and things are moving, it can get only better.
The another reason that the opportunity is right here, right now.
Rick: Well, look, there's a couple of things.
First of all, I know that when the capital controls disappear, everything will go through
the roof.
Now, you've already had capital controls for about two years, maybe two or three years.
I mean, you're not gonna have capital controls for the next 20 years, right?
So therefore, the opportunities you get in here...I mean, you and I have been buying
a whole bucket load of properties up for those like to fill up the sample bag, the Christmas
bag, you know?
Because capital controls one day have to disappear, and the fact is really we're just picking
up all the loans as you hit the 52% of loans that people don't wanna make payments on anymore,
we've just been picking those up because other people don't want them.
What have you found as you've tried to get other people involved in property, in Greece?
From where those...where do you think people struggle?
Chris: Okay.
Is there are mindset roadblocks, number one, because everybody says that property is a
bad thing.
Number one.
Number two, as soon as the capital controls are lifted, then people will feel differently,
especially people from abroad.
And number three, the major component is that as soon as the banks start lending again,
the prices will sky-rocket.
Rick: They will, won't they?
Chris: Yeah.
Rick: I understand that.
Guys, I'll tell you what, if you wanna speak about Greece and get more information on Greece,
just go to rickotton.co.uk/go.
That's rickotton.co.uk/go, and listen, plug in for 15 minutes, and if you wanna ask some
questions about Greece, what we're doing in Greece, I'd love to have a bit of a chat to
get you guys up to speed.
Chris Dyce and myself here, we're talking about buying properties, which of course [inaudible
00:16:58] we've sat in so many coffee shops, and I just think I was a bit excited by the
amount of people who sort of queued up.
And the funny thing is, when we actually thought we didn't wanna buy any more properties because...right?
You know, we didn't wanna buy any more properties, it was like 44-degree heat, and I'm thinking,
oh look, I've had enough.
And that lady was like...well, she came and she's like, "When are you gonna buy the property?"
And you looked at me and I looked at you like, "Do we really have to?
We're kind of...we've got our boots full right now, which is..."
Chris: That was a nice one, that was a nice one.
Rick: And the old story, the less you want it, the more the other person wants to do
it.
One other thing too that's going on here which I'm gonna get involved in...
Chris: Can I add something to this?
Guys, it was a hilarious moment where Rick goes like, "Chris Dyce, can you look a little
bit more interested about the property?"
Rick: Yeah, well that was it, you probably had that look of like, "Oh, we've got another
one.
Another one, look, jeez, you've got to stop, you know?
Stop the fight."
It's like the word got out, there must have been a memo that said there's only Rick and
Chris, those are the only two guys left buying property in Greece, and this memo must have
gone out, the posted note must've been stuck on a toilet wall somewhere, right?
And everybody is like coming to us, we're like, "Oh, no more, no more."
The other thing you've got here, which is great, is the €250,000 that you're gonna
invest in Greece, and that gives you entry into the EU.
So you buy one property for €250,000, which, by the way is about €600,000 property three
years ago, then you have €250,000, and then you've got access to the EU.
I think just all the other countries are collapsing.
Chris: Is the least expensive investment reserve [SP] across the EU at the minute.
Rick: Yeah.
Now, I was saying, well, Spain had a bundle a little while go that was €500,000, and
if it's all jumped and settled, let's make it 250, that's kind of like everybody saw
they're racing each other to the bottom.
Mate, thanks for coming in and chatting to us.
Chris: Pleasure.
Pleasure.
Thank you for coming over.
Rick: I'll tell you what, I feel like a big kid that's been locked in the chocolate shop
by his mommy late at night, mom's gone home and forgotten about me, and I've now gotta
survive through a chocolate diet for the next six hours, it's just great.
Thanks, everybody, for coming to the podcast.
I'll tell you what, I'm with Chris Dyce, we'll speak to you all next week.
Announcer: If you would like to download the audio or transcript for this episode, go to
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And if you have any questions, please email support@webuyhouses.com.au.
Thank you for tuning in, you are on the right path to real estate success.
This show does not provide legal, financial, accounting, investment, or any other professional
advice.
Any information shared on this podcast is that of the hosts.
Nevertheless, Rick and his students are abundantly successful, and would not transact real estate
in any other way.
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