SARAH LUTZ: That was the beginning to where we started
seeing, like, God's Word, actively learning
how to put it in our eyes, our ears, get it in our
heart and speak it. And that's when we
began to really see it do cool stuff in our lives.
(Singing) I know my God has made the way for
me. I know my God has made the way for me.
ANNOUNCER: Welcome to the Believer's Voice of Victory.
Join Gloria and Kellie Copeland today as they illustrate how
Jesus became the messenger of God's love by making it possible
for God, by the Spirit, to live inside every believer.
GLORIA: Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Believer's
Voice of Victory broadcast. We've got some more
good Word for you today, so don't go away. You pay
attention! How do you grow? By hearing the Word of God and
believing it, taking it, acting on it, and it begins to do a
work in your life that nothing else can do. Kellie's with us
again today. And, Kellie, welcome to the Believer's Voice
of Victory. KELLIE: Thanks. GLORIA: Share some good stuff
with us. KELLIE: The reason this Word makes us grow is because it
is Jesus. It literally--His Word is Jesus. The Word is Jesus.
Jesus is the Word. GLORIA: That's right. KELLIE: And you
take Him in. You take His life. You take--see, before, God
cannot be contained in a human, but when Jesus came as a human,
He made it possible then for His Spirit to be contained in all of
us. And He--His price made it possible for us to be made
holy-- GLORIA: Be born over again. KELLIE: --for us to be
born over. GLORIA: Think about it. KELLIE: For Him to have paid
the price so that we can do what--come into the presence of
the Father, come into the presence of God, because you
couldn't come into the presence of God with sin. GLORIA: No.
KELLIE: So Jesus had to go that route, and He was the--so all of
the love of God, all the love of the Father, all of His life, all
of His glory-- GLORIA: Yeah. KELLIE: The Bible calls Jesus
the "light of heaven." So the light of heaven, I mean, you
could say it bankrupted heaven to send Him here because
everything--but God's infinite, so I guess it was still--it
wasn't dark up there, but you know what I'm saying. He sent
everything of Himself here. And Jesus came in the form of a man.
GLORIA: His only begotten Son. KELLIE: Only begotten Son. Why?
So that He could become--so that He could pay the price-- GLORIA:
Pay the price. KELLIE: --and then come inside of us. And so
when we read this Word, we realize that Jesus was the
messenger of the Father's love. Jesus was the messenger of all
life, of the blessing, of power. GLORIA: That's right. KELLIE:
You know, the Bible says that it has--that every word has the
power in it to make itself come to pass. Why? It's alive. It's
Jesus. It's sharp. It's quicker. It's quick. It's sharper than
any two-edged sword. It's alive. That word "quick" means "alive."
The Word is alive. GLORIA: Amen. KELLIE: And we have it. And why
we leave it sitting on our coffee table or sitting by our
bed without understanding that it's the way we can know Jesus,
we can know Him intimately. GLORIA: Well, it's our freedom.
KELLIE: It's everything. GLORIA: You'll know the truth, and the
truth will make you free. KELLIE: That's right. GLORIA:
And if we don't know the truth, we're not going to be free.
KELLIE: Because Satan--we have an enemy. Satan wants you to
fail. And he wanted Jesus to fail, but that wasn't going to
happen. But He was tempted, the Bible says, like we are. He was
the perfect expression of the Father to us. And now He's
expressed--we have it expressed in the Word of God. And the
deeper you know this-- GLORIA: Praise God. KELLIE: --the more
you know Him intimately. When--in that scripture in
Hebrews where it says, "The word of God is alive and it's
powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the
dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and the joints and
marrow, it will--it's a discerner of the thoughts and
intents of the heart." It will tell you--it will decide for you
what's right. It's good for correction. GLORIA: If you know
it. If you know it. KELLIE: Yeah. Get into it. GLORIA: It's
so-- KELLIE: It's good for correction. GLORIA: The truth
makes you free. That's what the Bible says. That just settles
the issue. KELLIE: Sets us free. GLORIA: So if you want to be
free, get in the truth, get in a good Word church where they
preach the truth, learn, and grow up. Hallelujah. KELLIE: And
somebody might think, "Well, why would I want correction? I'm
doing fine by myself." Well, fine, stay by yourself, but
that's not how God meant it. He wanted His love to bless you.
And the problem with being by yourself is it might work for a
little while, but then you'll come up on a place where there's
nothing you can do about it. You know, Mom, that makes me think
about, you know, when Lyndsey was sick. There wasn't anything
hospitals could do for her. GLORIA: That's right. KELLIE: Or
Jenny, she was out of a car wreck; nothing that the hospital
could do with her except say, "She's going to die." But God,
that--you know, in those times is when you're really glad you
know Jesus-- GLORIA: Oh, yeah. KELLIE: --and that you have an
intimate relationship with Him by knowing what His Word says
about it. GLORIA: And you don't wait until that crisis comes to
build your faith. KELLIE: No. GLORIA: It's hard to build a
ship in a storm. It's hard to do that. But if you will begin to
build right now, as soon as you possibly can, begin to put the
Word in your eyes and your ears and listen to the teachings that
help you to grow up and become strong in the Lord, that way
you'd--if bad things do come your way, you'll have an answer
to it. KELLIE: And it's hard to build a relationship with Jesus
in a storm-- GLORIA: That's right. KELLIE: --of trust--
GLORIA: Yes. KELLIE: --because it's in your relationship--
GLORIA: Don't wait until it's-- KELLIE: --with Jesus-- GLORIA:
Don't wait until you're desperate. KELLIE: --that you
know to trust Him. When you put the Word in--why does it say,
"faith comes," when you put the Word in? "Faith comes by
hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." GLORIA: Yeah. That's
right. KELLIE: It comes. Why? Because you've built in
a--building a relationship with Jesus. GLORIA: You might say,
"Well, I--" KELLIE: You begin to trust Him. GLORIA: You might
say, "Well, I'm desperate now." Well, get to building. KELLIE:
Well, He'll help you build it in a storm. GLORIA: That's right.
KELLIE: I didn't mean to say that-- GLORIA: That's right.
KELLIE: --because He certainly has helped me with that, and you
can certainly go deeper. I'm telling you, there is nothing
like the calm after a storm. GLORIA: Hallelujah. KELLIE: When
you have been through a storm, and maybe you weren't prepared
for it, but you got your praying friend around you, and you went
to the Word, Jesus will tell you the things you need to know.
GLORIA: Praise God. KELLIE: And on the other side of that storm,
you'll be A stronger person than you were when you went in.
GLORIA: That's true. KELLIE: Why? Well, you don't have to be.
It doesn't have to work that way, but if you press into Him--
GLORIA: For one thing, you'll have victory. You'll know, "I
got victory doing this. I can do this again." KELLIE: And no
matter how much you know or don't know, if you stand on His
Word, He is faithful to you. GLORIA: Oh, yeah, that's right.
KELLIE: And, you know, just while you were talking, Mom,
about, you don't--to try to have a relationship with Jesus and
not put His Word in, is to--or to try to have faith without
putting His Word in, it's like--this--you probably haven't
seen it. There's a stupid, stupid show. I don't think if
it's on anymore. Hopefully it's not. These people--it's a
reality show. And they would marry without even knowing each
other. Like-- GLORIA: That's--hmm. KELLIE: --people
would pick out someone for you to marry, and you didn't even
know them. And the reality show of this was that these people
would--they would watch how these people got along without
knowing each other and trying to be married. That's what life
with Jesus is like when you don't get in His Word and learn
Him and know Him. You can't have a relationship like that, and
you certainly can't trust anybody like that. So you get in
His Word. GLORIA: Amen. KELLIE: Well, I want to show you an
example in the Word of God of where people tried to separate
the scriptures from Jesus, like tried to have the scriptures
without having Jesus to go along with them, or try to have the
scriptures say something that they want it to say. Man, I'm
telling you, the scriptures, they make a really powerful
hammer on people, a dagger. You can hurt somebody with
scriptures when you separate it from Jesus, you separate it from
the love of God. People have used the Bible year after year
after year, thousands of years, to hurt people and to control
people. That's not God. That's not Jesus. But there's no life
in it when you try to separate His Word from Him. He is the
Word. So let's look at this. This is John 6. And, of course,
you know, Jesus had preached the day before, and He had--man, He
didn't do a miracle with the food just to show He could do a
miracle. These people had been in His teaching. They had been
in front of Him all day long. GLORIA: They were hungry.
KELLIE: They were hungry. And so that night, of course, He goes
to the other side. He put the disciples in a boat, and He
walked on the water to the other side. So it says, in Verse 23,
John 6--this is out of The Passion Translation. "The next
morning--" I think yours is--yours is right here, Mom.
"The next morning, the crowds were still on the opposite shore
of the lake near the place where they had eaten the bread He had
multiplied after He had given thanks to God." So they're still
on the other side, the crowds. Jesus was nowhere to be found.
They realized that only one boat had been there, and Jesus hadn't
boarded. And they concluded that His disciples had left Him
behind. So when they saw on the shoreline a number of small
boats from Tiberius, they got into the boats and went to
Capernaum to search for Him. When they finally found Him,
they asked Him, 'Teacher, how did you get here?'" Now, let's
just stop for a minute and think about why they're looking for
Him. I think they're hungry, but I don't--you know, I think--I
don't know. This looks like it's the same people that were
listening to Him the day before, but yet today--and this just
goes to show He's got to be the living bread every day. You
can't just live on the Word you received yesterday. GLORIA:
That's right. KELLIE: Yesterday, these people were hungry for
what He had to say, so much so that they stayed all day. But
the next day, they're just hungry for something to eat.
They're just hungry for some natural bread. It says, "Jesus
replied, 'Let me make this clear. You came looking for me
because I fed you by miracle, not because you believe in me.
Why would you strive for food that is perishable and not be
passionate to seek the food of eternal life that never
spoils?'" And, you know, He said--this is how Mom got saved.
GLORIA: Mm-hmm. KELLIE: --"Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and
his righteousness; and the things--" Because in that same
verse-- GLORIA: These things-- KELLIE: --in that same chapter,
He was talking about--that's in Matthew 6. He was talking about
what you eat, what you drink, what you wear. So when He said
things, He literally meant the normal, natural things we have
to sustain life. He said, "Those things will be added when you
seek first the kingdom." But He knew this day, they're not
seeking--they're seeking something that perishes. You
know, the food we eat, I mean, it's good, we need it, but it
doesn't give you life. It doesn't give you eternal life.
GLORIA: It sustains you for a very short period of time.
KELLIE: Very short. Obviously, just over night, ha-ha-ha,
because they wanted more. But He said--He said, "I--" The--let me
see how it says this in the New Living. He says, "I tell you the
truth, you want to be with me because I fed you, not because
you understood the miraculous signs. But don't be so concerned
about perishable things like food. Spend your energy seeking
the eternal life that the Son of Man can give you. For God the
Father has given me his seal of approval." He came out of the
Father. Jesus came out of the Father to express the life of
the Father, not just to give people a piece of bread. He
did--He's not here just to give you your needs met, but I love
it that He'll take your needs and--and in meeting those, He's
wanting to meet your inside needs. In meeting your natural
need, He wants to get to your inside need. You can see that at
the woman at the well. She had an outside need, but He used
that outside need. She was a hurting person. GLORIA: Mm-hmm.
KELLIE: But He went through that to get into her heart and
changed her whole life because she didn't need. She didn't need
just free from shame, she needed to walk in the light that He had
for her and the call of God that He had on her life. That's a
powerful call of God. Hers is a powerful story. GLORIA: Praise
God. KELLIE: But God used--Jesus used that need that she had to
meet a deeper need, a need for--to not come back to that
well again. He gave her living water. And that's what He wants
to do. So He doesn't mind that we have needs. He wants to meet
them. But these people, they were after Him just for the
bread and not for Himself. He says, "I, the Son of Man, am
ready to give you what matters the most, for God the Father has
destined me for this purpose." Remember, we keep saying that
God the Father sent Him to express Himself, to express His
desire to love us. "They replied, 'So what should we do
if we want to do God's work?' Jesus said, 'The work you can do
for God starts with believing the one He sent.'" I like the
way this says it in here. He says, "We want to perform God's
works, too. What should we do?" In other words, "We want it to
be where we can perform God's works, then we won't need you."
GLORIA: Hm-mm. KELLIE: That doesn't work. GLORIA: No.
KELLIE: Jesus said, "This is the only work God wants from you:
Believing the one he sent." GLORIA: Yeah. KELLIE: In other
words, "There's nothing you can do to perform these miracles,
but if you'll believe in Me, I'll perform the miracles." Mom,
I think that even today--I think it's really easy to get our eyes
on food, bread, drive, home, miracles even in our body and
get our eyes off of the fact that they come with Jesus. It's
so easy to get them. GLORIA: Part of the package. KELLIE:
It's part of the Jesus package. But when we start wanting a
miracle, and we get focused on that, then we have to strive
because we have no ability to get a miracle. GLORIA: Well, we
have faith-- KELLIE: In-- GLORIA: --in the Word. KELLIE:
--in, of Jesus. Right? You're right. We have faith in the Word
of Jesus. But just to say, "I have faith that I'm healed," and
not know-- GLORIA: Well, if you don't have the Word, you don't
have faith-- KELLIE: No. GLORIA: --because that's the source--
KELLIE: You don't have anything to put it in. GLORIA: --of
faith. Yep. KELLIE: And to be--to be trying to have
miracles--people can want miracles for all kinds of
reasons. GLORIA: Sure. KELLIE: They can want miracles because
they're in pain. They can want miracles because they want their
church to grow. They can want miracles for all kinds of
reasons. But we don't get miracles without Jesus. He's our
source. GLORIA: Of course not. KELLIE: He's everything. And so
that's what He was telling them that day. He said, "You can't do
miracles, but you can believe on the one God sent you to do a
miracle." He says-- "They replied, 'Show us a miracle so
we can see it and then we'll believe in you.'" GLORIA: That's
not the way it works. KELLIE: It's not the way it works. And,
you know, when I said that the result of separating Jesus and
the Word, this is what I'm talking about. They want a
miracle, and then they'll believe in Him. "'Moses took
care of our ancestors who were fed by the miracle of manna
every day in the desert. Just like the scripture says, "He fed
them with bread from heaven." What sign will you perform for
us?'" Well, Jesus corrects them over that. So they're using
Scripture to say, "Moses fed--" And Jesus said, "'The truth is,
Moses didn't give you bread from heaven. It is my Father who
offers the bread.'" And I like the way this puts it. "My Father
offers bread that comes as a dramatic sign from heaven. The
bread of God is the one who came out of heaven to give this life
to feed the world." So I was thinking about this. So this
Aramaic, it says down here, can be translated, "A rainbow sign."
So just like Noah was given a rainbow sign that God loved
them, manna from heaven was a sign of God's love and care for
them. But what Jesus is saying, "The bread of God is the one who
came out of heaven." So, in other words, yes, there was a
rainbow sign out of heaven. What does it say? "God loves you.
I'll take care of you. I have a covenant with you." Then there's
manna come down from heaven. "I love you. I'll take care of you.
I'm here for you. I'll provide for you." Jesus, the bread
falling from heaven to the earth to say, "We have a covenant."
The Father says, "This is my covenant. I love you. I'll take
care of you." So to want any of those other things-- GLORIA:
"This is my Son, in whom I'm well pleased; hear ye Him."
KELLIE: And that's why He came. And He came to perfectly express
the Father. And if we want to know the Father, we have to know
the Son. GLORIA: That's right. KELLIE: And the best way to get
to know Him, the--like fabulously and powerfully is in
His Word. This is Him expressed. GLORIA: Oh, yes. That's true.
KELLIE: And it's the love of the Father expressed. And He is the
sign and the covenant come from heaven for the Father to be able
to express to His children who He couldn't get to before Jesus.
But now He can say, through Jesus and through Kellie and
Gloria Copeland today, "You have a Father that loves you."
GLORIA: We do. We have a Father. And you have a Father. KELLIE:
And you have a Savior, and His name is Jesus. GLORIA: Praise be
to God. Jesus changes everything. KELLIE: Everything.
GLORIA: If you've never made Jesus the Lord of your life,
just give it to Him right now. Say, "Jesus, I receive You as my
Lord and Savior. Take my life and do something with
it." Oh, you'd be--you'll be amazed at what
He does. Kellie and I'll be right back.
RAY LUTZ: I'm Ray Lutz. This is Sarah Lutz, and we
are from Union City, Ohio. SARAH LUTZ: I just remember I started
feeling a lot of sadness. I was struggling. But the sadness kept
getting deeper and deeper. There were times I just didn't want to
get out of bed. I felt overwhelmed with just normal
living. It started getting worse, where I just--there were
times I just actually wanted to die, you know. But, I mean, I
knew the Lord and--ha--I remember I would try to just
rebuke it, take authority. But for some reason, it just seemed
like it wasn't working. And I just remember getting out of bed
and just trying to keep my kids alive. I just tried to make food
to feed them. And then I remember not even cleaning up
the dishes. Just--I just felt--the house was getting a
mess, and I--and then I felt terrible about myself. It was
just a weird experience because I'd never felt that before,
where I felt like--like in prison or like I couldn't do
certain things. And I remember just reaching a point of
desperation. I was like just crying. And I'm like, "Okay,
Lord. I know that, like, the problem is not with You. There's
something I'm not understanding. Will You show me what's going
on?" RAY: You know, as a husband, you know, we're there
to comfort, protect, and just to take care of our wife. And when
there isn't really anything that you can do physically other
than, you know, spiritually just--just by prayer, you know,
that's--that's hard. SARAH: I was channel surfing one day, and
I hadn't listened to Gloria and Kenneth Copeland. I'd heard of
them, but I hadn't really listened to them. And so I felt
drawn to turn on Gloria Copeland. And so when I did, it
was just cool because the Lord started just penetrating my
heart with what she was saying. And she was talking about
how--what was this whole world made from? And she said--and I
was thinking, "Well, God." But then she said, "Words, the words
that came out of God's mouth." And I was like, "Huh. Yeah,
that's right." And so then she started talking--she just really
started teaching on the power of our words and--and how we are
filled with the fruit of our lips and about how important it
is with speaking life. And, like, stuff just started kind of
like exploding on the inside of me. And she started just
teaching--and I needed this--like step by step, like
how to apply God's Word, like how to--because I was getting a
little bit of Word in the day and a whole lot of either TV or
just the world. I wasn't--I didn't have as much Word in me
as I needed. And I really--it was just cool because it was a
journey where I began to learn how to walk by faith and not by
sight. His Word trumps how I feel. His Word trumps what I
see. His Word--His Word is the truth. And so I began to write
down scriptures, bunches of scriptures. And one day, I was
doing the dishes, and I'd been feeling great. And I was just
looking out the window, and I was praying, and I'd been trying
to pray in the Spirit while I cleaned and different stuff. And
all of a sudden, that deep, deep sadness--and it felt like
heaviness, like came on me. And it was almost like, because it
was familiar, I almost let it--like I was just used to it.
I almost let it stay there. And the Holy Spirit, like, quickened
my heart, and I started thinking in my mind, "No, I did not just
learn all this to have to go through life like this, you
know, again." And I spoke, and I said, "No, I rebuke you, spirit
of depression. In the name of Jesus, you leave." And then I
just started saying every scripture that I could think of.
The deep sadness or whatever, it, like, left. And it was cool
because, you know, like a bubbling brook, water flowing
out, like it felt like that's bubbling inside of me. And then
it was complete joy. And I just started, like, praising God,
because when you feel like you don't want to live anymore and
you feel that sadness--and I didn't want to be on medicine
all my life, like it was crucial. And, like, I--I was so
excited that I do not have to live my life dealing with that.
I knew how to overcome it, you know. And so anyway, that was
the beginning to where we started seeing, like, God's
Word, actively learning how to put it in our eyes, our ears,
get it in our heart and speak it. And that's when we began to
really see it do cool stuff in our lives.
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