>> TALKING ABOUT DEATH USUALLY FILLS PEOPLE WITH DREAD BUT
GAIL RUBIN, YOU SEE IT AS A WAY TO CELEBRATE LIFE.
THANKS FOR SITTING DOWN WITH NEW MEXICO INFOCUS.
>> GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.
>> YOU CALL YOURSELF THE DOYENNE OF DEATH AND YOU'RE A
BREAST CANCER SURVIVOR.
HOW DID THAT EXPERIENCE TEACH YOU CELEBRATING LIFE IS
IMPORTANT EVEN WHILE YOU'RE PLANNING FOR THE END OF IT?
>> WELL, LET ME EXPLAIN WHAT A DOYENNE IS.
A WOMAN WHO IS CONSIDERED SENIOR IN A GROUP WHO KNOWS A
LOT ABOUT A PARTICULAR SUBJECT AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW
THAT BECAUSE IT IS A MORE FOREIGN TERM.
FACING BREAST CANCER REALLY PUTS YOU IN TOUCH WITH YOUR
MORTALITY AND THEN YOU REALIZE, I REALLY DO NEED TO
MAKE THE MOST OF EVERY SINGLE DAY AND WHEN YOU DO THAT, YOU
CAN BE MORE PRESENT IN THE MOMENT AND REALLY CELEBRATE
YOUR LIFE.
AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO.
AS FAR AS WE KNOW, THIS IS THE ONE LIFE THAT WE HAVE.
SO, LET'S CELEBRATE IT AND BE HONEST ABOUT TALKING ABOUT THE
FACT THAT WE'RE NOT ALWAYS GOING TO BE HERE ALL THE TIME.
IF YOU FELL OFF THE FACE OF THE PLANET ONE DAY, WHICH YOU
WILL -- >> WE ALL WILL.
>> -- WHAT KIND OF MESS ARE WE GOING TO LEAVE BEHIND?
WE HAVE OUR FINANCIAL ISSUES.
WE HAVE WHAT DO WE WANT DONE WITH OUR LIFELESS CARCASS.
WHAT HAPPENS TO OUR LOVED ONES?
LESS THAN 30% OF US DO ANY END OF LIFE PLANNING AND THAT
MEANS WHEN WE DIE, 70% OF THE LOVED ONES ARE SCRAMBLING TO
PULL TOGETHER INFORMATION AND MAKE EXPENSIVE DECISIONS UNDER
DURESS OF GRIEF.
AND IF WE JUST TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS, IT WON'T KILL
US.
WE CAN HELP OUR FAMILIES.
>> WHAT ARE SOME OF THE ISSUES OUR LOVED ONES WILL FACE IF WE
DON'T PLAN AHEAD?
>> WELL, FIRST THING IS WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH YOUR
BODY?
USUALLY IT IS CREMATION OR BURIAL, BUT THERE ARE
EXPANDING OPTIONS.
YOU CAN DONATE YOUR BODY TO SCIENCE AND GET A FREE
CREMATION DOING THAT.
THERE IS FUNERAL PLANNING AND HOW ARE YOU GOING TO CELEBRATE
YOUR LIFE?
THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO SAY, DON'T HAVE A FUNERAL FOR
ME WHEN I AM GONE.
>> I HAD A FRIEND WHO DID THAT RECENTLY.
>> IT IS SO CRUEL TO THE PEOPLE WHO LOVE YOU AND WHAT I
SAY IS, IF PEOPLE DIDN'T LOVE YOU, DON'T WORRY, THEY
WOULDN'T GO TO THE TROUBLE.
AND, SO, LET PEOPLE KNOW WHAT WOULD BE A NICE WAY TO
CELEBRATE YOUR LIFE.
WE ALL HAVE OUR PASSIONS, WE ALL HAVE THINGS THAT WE ARE
KNOWN FOR AND THOSE ELEMENTS CAN MAKE A REALLY MEANINGFUL
GOOD, GOODBYE.
THERE IS ALSO FINANCIAL ISSUES.
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SAY, OH, I DON'T OWN MUCH.
IT WOULDN'T BE A BIG PROBLEM.
IT IS OKAY IF YOU KNOW WHO IS GOING TO GET WHAT AND MAYBE
YOU HAVE GOT A WILL TO DICTATE THAT, BUT YOU CAN ALSO GET A
TRUST TO PASS THOSE THINGS ALONG TO KEEP THINGS OUT OF
PROBATE COURT AND I AM NOT A LAWYER SO DON'T TAKE THIS AS
LEGAL ADVICE BUT THESE CAN BE COMPLICATED ISSUES AND IF YOU
DIE ONE DAY WITHOUT HAVING LAID OUT ALL YOUR PASSWORDS
FOR YOUR ONLINE ACCOUNTS AND ALL OF YOUR ONGOING
SUBSCRIPTIONS AND SOCIAL MEDIA, YOUR FRIENDS ON
FACEBOOK ARE GOING TO GET YOUR BIRTHDAY ANNOUNCEMENTS EVERY
SINGLE YEAR UNTIL -- UNLESS SOMEBODY HAS ACCESS OR KNOWS
HOW TO MEMORIALIZE YOUR FACEBOOK ACCOUNT.
>> THE TAG LINE OF YOUR BOOK IS FUNERAL PLANNING FOR THOSE
WHO DON'T PLAN TO DIE.
WHY DO YOU THINK SO MANY PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO TALK
ABOUT THE END OF LIFE.
YOU JUST LAID OUT GOOD REASONS WHY WE SHOULD, BUT WHAT
PREVENTS IT?
>> BECAUSE IT IS A REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE TOPIC AND THERE
ARE SOCIOLOGICAL STRUCTURES AS TO WHY WE AVOID IT BUT
BASICALLY BECAUSE WE ARE AFRAID OF NOT BEING ANYMORE.
IT IS A TOPIC THAT TERRIFIES US.
IT IS THE TERROR MANAGEMENT THEORY IS WHAT IT IS
OFFICIALLY CALLED.
RATHER THAN BE UNCOMFORTABLE AND THINKING ABOUT THE IDEA OF
NOT BEING AROUND, WE JUST DECIDE TO AVOID THE TOPIC AND
THAT IS TO OUR OWN DETRIMENT AND OUR FAMILY'S DETRIMENT.
AND MY MOTTO IS JUST LIKE TALKING ABOUT SEX WON'T MAKE
YOU PREGNANT, TALKING ABOUT FUNERALS AND END OF LIFE
ISSUES WON'T MAKE YOU DEAD.
>> WE HAVE MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES IN NEW MEXICO
INCLUDING SOME OF OUR NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBES WHERE IT IS A
MAJOR TABU TO TALK ABOUT DEATH.
HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO ADAPT YOUR MESSAGE FOR DIFFERENT
COMMUNITIES?
>> YOU KNOW, I USE HUMOR AND FUNNY FILMS TO BREAK DOWN THE
RESISTANCE TO TALKING ABOUT THIS.
AND I HAVE COLLECTED A NUMBER OF FILM CLIPS FROM AFRICAN
AMERICANS AND HISPANIC AND EVEN SOME NATIVE AMERICAN FILM
CLIPS BUT AS FAR AS BEING ABLE TO PRESENT THEM TO THOSE
SECTIONS OF OUR POPULATION, I HAVE NOT ACTUALLY HAD MUCH OF
AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT BUT I WOULD WELCOME THE
OPPORTUNITY.
BECAUSE WHEN SOMEBODY IS SICK AND IN THE HOSPITAL,
ESPECIALLY OUR HISPANIC COMMUNITIES, ALL OF THE FAMILY
COMES THERE TO BE WITH GRANDMA OR MOM OR WHOEVER IS IN THAT
HOSPITAL BED SO THEY WANT TO BE THERE FOR THEIR FAMILIES
BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT OR THINK ABOUT OR EVEN
PLAN AHEAD MOSTLY FOR WHAT COMES NEXT.
AND, PART OF THAT IS WE ARE SO INVESTED IN OUR MEDICAL
COMMUNITIES HEALING US AND MODERN MEDICINE HAS MADE
INCREDIBLE STRIDES TO SAVE OUR LIVES BUT THESE BODIES ONLY
LAST SO LONG AND CAN ONLY SAVE US A CERTAIN NUMBER OF TIMES.
PART OF IT MIGHT BE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT HOW THE MEDICAL
COMMUNITY ACTUALLY APPROACHES TREATMENT.
THEY GET PAID THE MORE THEY DO AND OFFERING THAT HOPE THAT,
WELL, WE COULD DO THIS AND IT COULD EXTEND THEIR LIFE, BUT
IT COULD ALSO MAKE THEM PHYSICALLY MISERABLE AND JUST
TORTURE THEM LONGER BEFORE SOMEBODY ACTUALLY DIES.
>> IT'S CERTAINLY THE ECONOMIC STRUCTURE OF OUR MEDICAL CARE
SYSTEM BUT ALSO GIVING PEOPLE HOPE.
DO WE NEED TO CHANGE SOMETHING IN OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM TO
OPEN UP MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR DOCTORS TO HAVE THESE
CONVERSATIONS?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
HERE LOCALLY, DR.
AROOP MANGALIK, HAS RECENTLY WRITTEN
A BOOK CALLED "DEALING WITH DOCTORS, DENIAL AND DEATH."
AND HE TALKS AT LENGTH ABOUT HOW DO WE HAVE OUR DOCTORS
TRAINED TO BE MORE REALISTIC ABOUT PEOPLES' HOPES, WHAT THE
MEDICAL ESTABLISHMENT CAN DO FOR THEM AND HONESTLY LAYING
OUT WHAT YOU'RE OPTIONS ARE FOR FACING END OF LIFE.
DO YOU WANT TO BE COMFORTABLE AT HOME?
AND, YOU KNOW, THE USAGE OF HOSPICE IS PHENOMENALLY SHORT
AND IT COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER.
IN FACT, THERE ARE STUDIES THAT SHOW THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE
FACING AN END OF LIFE, TERMINAL DIAGNOSIS, RATHER
THAN PURSUING AGGRESSIVE CARE, ESPECIALLY IN CANCER
SITUATIONS, IF THEY CHOOSE HOSPICE AND LESS AGGRESSIVE
INTERVENTION, THEY ACTUALLY LIVE LONGER AND BETTER LIVES,
WHILE THEY ARE STILL ALIVE.
SO, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE MORE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT HOSPICE
AND EXPLORING WHAT THAT IS AND MEDICARE TAKES CARE OF HOSPICE
CARE.
>> IT IS ALSO A MATTER OF TRAINING DOCTORS TO BE
COMFORTABLE DOING THIS.
THEY ARE TRAINED TO SAVE LIVES.
>> TRAINED TO SAVE LIVES, SO DEATH IS SEEN AS A DEFEAT.
WE LOST.
WE LOST THE PATIENT.
AND, WE ARE NOT LOSING, WE ARE TRANSITIONING.
THIS IS PART OF THE NATURAL LIFE CYCLE.
WAYNE DYER HAD A GREAT QUOTE ABOUT LIFE ITSELF, SAYING IT
IS A SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED TERMINAL CONDITION.
>> YOU ALSO HOLD REGULAR EVENTS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR
AROUND THESE THINGS CALLED DEATH CAFES.
>> THE DEATH CAFE MOVEMENT CAME TO US FROM THE UNITED
KINGDOM WHERE THEY ALSO STARTED THE BEFORE I DIE
FESTIVAL MOVEMENT AND I HAVE BROUGHT BOTH OF THESE HERE TO
ALBUQUERQUE.
IN 2012, I HELD THE FIRST DEATH CAFE IN THE U.S. WEST OF
THE MISSISSIPPI AND THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO COME
TOGETHER HAVE A LITTLE COFFEE OR TEA, SOME CAKE OR COOKIES,
SOME NOURISHMENT, TO LET YOU RELAX, AND THEN TALK ABOUT
WHATEVER IS ON YOUR HEARTS AND MINDS ABOUT MORTALITY ISSUES.
>> DO PEOPLE DO THAT?
THEY DO. AND, REALLY, THERE ARE FOUR
AREAS THAT ARE PRIMARY TOPICS THAT COME UP; FINANCIAL
ISSUES, SPIRITUAL ISSUES, MEDICAL ISSUES AND MATERIAL
ISSUES.
WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO MY STUFF.
BUT I HAVE ALSO HAD GREAT STORIES ABOUT NEAR DEATH
EXPERIENCES, WHICH CONVINCED ME THAT THERE IS SOMETHING
BEYOND THIS PHYSICAL LIFETIME, JUST AMAZING STORIES OF PEOPLE
WHO HAVE BEEN CLINICALLY DEAD AND COME BACK TO LIFE AND HAVE
THESE AMAZING EXPERIENCES THAT THEY RELATE SEEING THEIR
BODIES IN THE HOSPITAL WHILE THEY GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
AND, THEN COME BACK.
AND THEN THE BEFORE I DIE FESTIVAL IS ALSO AN
OPPORTUNITY TO DO ALL SORTS OF ACTIVITIES TO OPENLY THINK
ABOUT AND TALK ABOUT AND THEN HOPEFULLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT
OUR MORTALITY.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK TALKING ABOUT -- OR WHY DO YOU THINK
TALKING ABOUT THE END OF OUR LIFE NOW MIGHT HELP US ENJOY
OR LIVES WHILE WE ARE HERE?
>> IT JUST OPENS THE DOOR TO REALIZE THAT TODAY IS THE DAY
THAT WE HAVE.
TOMORROW IS NOT PROMISED.
THE PAST, YESTERDAY IS HISTORY.
SO, THE BUDDHA ACTUALLY EXPRESSED THIS IN TERMS OF
RELEASE YOUR ATTACHMENTS.
YOUR ATTACHMENTS BECOME BAGGAGE AND IF YOU'RE HAULING
AROUND OLD GRUDGES, IF YOU'RE BUILDING UP ALL SORTS OF STUFF
IN YOUR HOUSE, DOWNSIZING IS ANOTHER THING I HAVE GOTTEN
INTO.
YOU CAN, THEN, FOCUS ON THIS PRESENT MOMENT WHICH IS ALL
THAT WE REALLY HAVE AND WHEN YOU'RE FOCUSED ON THE PRESENT
MOMENT, YOU CAN REALIZE, WELL, I AM NOT GOING TO BE HERE FOR
EVER.
I THINK I BETTER TAKE CARE OF ALL THESE MANY THREADS OF MY
LIFE.
SO THAT WHEN I DO CHECK OUT, MY LOVED ONES WILL HAVE AN
ORGANIZED IDEA OF WHAT THEY NEED TO DO TO CLOSE DOWN THE
ESTATE AND DO SOMETHING WITH MY BODY.
>> YOU HAVE A DRAFT OF YOUR OWN OBITUARY ON YOUR WEBSITE.
WHY ARE YOU ENCOURAGING FOLKS TO WRITE THEIR OBITUARY.
>> WHEN I WAS FIRST WRITING MY FIRST BOOK.
A GOOD GOODBYE FUNERAL PLANNING FOR THOSE WHO DON'T
PLAN TO DIE, MY FATHER-IN-LAW WAS MY TEST CASE FOR PLANNING
AHEAD.
I NEVER PREPLANNED A FUNERAL FOR ANYBODY.
I WAS AMAZED HOW MUCH INFORMATION WE NEEDED AND
DIDN'T HAVE, WAS GLAD HE WAS ALIVE TO PROVIDE THAT
INFORMATION.
WHEN I WAS DISCUSSING THIS WITH MY IN-LAWS OVER DINNER
ONE NIGHT, HE WAS, OH, YEAH, I'LL GET YOU THE FAMILY
HISTORY AND MY SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER AND VETERANS PAPERS AND
I AM GOING TO WRITE MY OWN OBITUARY.
I THOUGHT THIS IS GREAT.
MY MOTHER-IN-LAW, SHE DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT, DIDN'T
WANT TO THINK ABOUT IT, BUT WHEN HE DIED, WHICH WAS THREE
YEARS AFTER WE HAD PLANNED AHEAD FOR HIM, THAT WAS THE
ONE THING HE DIDN'T DO, DID NOT WRITE HIS OWN OBITUARY.
TAKING CARE OF ARRANGEMENTS WAS QUICK.
WE WERE DONE IN AN HOUR WHICH IS SPEEDY.
ONCE YOU PUT THE INFORMATION ON FILE AND SET THAT UP AND WE
SPENT THE MOST TIME JUST SKETCHING OUT SOME KIND OF
OBITUARY AND IT WAS NOT GREAT BECAUSE WE WERE, YOU KNOW,
THIS WAS AFTER SEVEN WEEKS OF SCHLEPPING BACK AND FORTH TO
THE HOSPITAL AND BEING UP UNTIL MIDNIGHT THE NIGHT
BEFORE WHEN HE DIED.
AND THAT IS NO TIME TO WRITE AN OBITUARY.
SO TO BE ABLE TO WRITE OUT WHAT YOU'RE PASSIONATE ABOUT
WHAT YOU FEEL IS YOUR BIGGEST ACCOMPLISHMENTS, OF COURSE,
THE PEOPLE THAT YOU LOVE, THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO NAME IN THE
OBITUARY, BUT, REALLY, SOME OF THE BEST OBITUARIES I HAVE
SEEN REALLY CAPTURED THE SPIRIT OF THE PERSON.
AND THAT IS BEST WRITTEN BEFORE ANYBODY IS SICK OR
ANYBODY HAS DIED.
>> ACTUALLY SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD EXERCISE ANY TIME IN YOUR LIFE
TO EVALUATE WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO YOU.
>> WHAT AGE WOULD YOU SUGGEST PEOPLE DO THIS?
>> YOU KNOW AS SOON AS YOU'RE AN ADULT, AGE OF 18.
AND THEN YOU CAN REVISIT IT EVERY BIRTHDAY AND UPDATE IT
WITH WHATEVER YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED IN THAT PREVIOUS
YEAR.
>> GAIL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING AND TALKING ABOUT THIS,
APPRECIATE IT.
>> THANK YOU.
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