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that's why it's important when they're little you're slowly building that
foundation and one it builds a trust so that if something does happen or if
they're exposed to something or they have a question they're gonna know mom
and dad they're safe they're not gonna freak out about this they understand I
can I can talk
welcome to the focus on the family broadcast helping families thrive
at Jon the statistics on sexual abuse are heartbreaking with one in four girls
and I know this varies by different studies but generally this holds one in
four girls and one in six boys are abused and we don't want your children
to become one of those statistics today we're gonna empower you as a parent or
maybe a grandparent to know how to talk to your young children about the wonders
of the human body the good things that God has created but we want to do that
in the context of safe and healthy relationships and how you can teach your
children about sexual abuse in an age-appropriate way obviously in the
culture today this is a very important topic and I think children need to have
a biblical understanding of what God has done which is a good thing and then how
to you know control those appetites and really be in control of your own body
and that's what we're gonna speak to today and we're gonna speak specifically
to how to do that in the lives of little children yeah you're gonna be empowered
to help your kid feel equipped to deal with any potential issues we've invited
as I said Justin and Lindsey Holcomb Justin has a doctorate he's a minister
and a professor of theology at gordon-conwell Theological Seminary and
Lindsay's busy she's a first grade teacher and counsels victims of sexual
assault and domestic violence and and together they started rest which is real
escape from the sex trade an organization devoted to that great
endeavor and the Holcomb's have also written a book called God made all of me
and my understanding is you wrote it for your two daughters that's true we we
have daughters and when they were a little bit younger they're seven and
nine when they were a little bit younger we were looking for a book that would
that would be both Christian content and really good illustrations that would get
to the practical issues on that and so we decided that we couldn't find the
book so we decided to make it Justin and Lindsay we hear about this topic quite
often now because I think because of the prolific nature of it and if you're in a
family that's safe you probably don't come
across this but many families encounter this I was stunned to read that about
90% of abuse of this nature comes from someone in the family or close to the
family it's not stranger danger I know I taught my boys that and Jean and I
stranger danger but when you look at the statistics it's only about 10% that are
stranger related most of it is people the kids will know is that right that is
very important for everyone to understand because if you think it's
only strangers you'll give yourself a false sense of security and the stats
that we have are about 34% our family members the other 58% are acquaintances
so it's more likely that a child will be sexually abused by a grown up an adult
that's trusted and known by the child that leaves about seven to ten percent
that is stranger so knowing that the knowing who you're defending against is
really important well if you think about it we do as parents a lot of the
stranger-danger talk because I think we don't want to believe that someone in
our family or someone near us as a friend would harm our child it's almost
unthinkable and we don't spend a lot of time if any trying to equip a child to
understand how to how to be more assertive in that kind of environment
and so often you hear those horrible stories where the child just didn't know
what to do when uncle or cousin or somebody did something to them and we'll
talk more about that specifically this is a great book I wish it was around and
my boys were younger God made all of me let's go there I
mentioned a moment ago the alarming stat about the number of boys and girls who
are impacted by sexual abuse but give us more of that overview of the problem
parents often aren't equipped to talk to their kids why well that was one of the
motivations when we wrote the book we found a lot of our friends were not
having the conversation with their children because they felt awkward they
didn't want to cause fear in their children and they just didn't quite have
the tool of how do I even launch this topic and a
lot of our friends their children were 10 13 and they're thinking oh goodness
so much time is passed by how do I start now and so of course this book is
written primarily for the two to eight year old age range but we told them you
know if you have a child that is older start with the book and then it could be
a good launching pad for more conversations but primarily the thing we
want parents to know is you're not going to mess up with the conversation but
don't try and sit down and have like an hour-long talk that because I'm nervous
I'm going bad I want to talk about this and get it done with right so I'm in
that spot where I'm kind of nervous I don't believe what you just said if I
say that bold so tell me how I can not mess it up seriously I could mess this
up you don't know me I might say something stupid
and my kids might think I'm saying something stupid I think we have done
that that's where grace abounds but with with building a foundation with our
girls we've talked to them about their body since they were wee little ones
which is important in infants you know when I was changing their diaper I would
say you know now I'm you know I would name their body parts which is really
important I'm of course you know this isn't something we do all day long we
don't the appropriate time yes and in the building that foundation briefly and
so naming their body parts or we're getting in the tub and this is this
something that mommy and daddy help you with of cleaning in the tub or who sees
your private parts the doctor when mom and dad are present or if I'm helping
you on the toilet or in the bathtub other than that this is your body and so
it's all about giving control back to the child which is what sexual abuse
does is it takes awake and takes away the control but for a parent it's
building the slow foundation and no child wants an hour-long conversation or
even 20 minutes they zone out on anything seems like the older they get
the less discussion they want so that's why it's important when they're little
you're slowly building that foundation and one it builds a trust so that if
something does happen or if they're exposed to something or they have a
question they're gonna know mom and dad they're safe they're not gonna freak out
about this they understand I can I can talk to them if I can go back real quick
to something that Lyndsey taught me on how to talk about this with our children
was you don't have to say everything all at once because right
dad's listen because I think dad's follow that fall prey to that more often
than moms exactly especially someone whose job it is to speak and teach you
think I'd say everything all at once so she said just give him a little chunk
and let them ask questions follow their lead follow their questions that so that
helps demystify it for parents is you don't have to have everything lined up
perfectly and know exactly or five points you're going to say just give the
big picture God made your body and all of it in these body parts and then let
them ask questions and answer to their level of query yes and that's great
advice and it is a nervous area of parenting it's probably the most
complicated or at least we make it that way
Justin specifically for you this isn't coming out of a vacuum you experience
this yeah that I know has to be hard to talk about but I'm glad and grateful for
your boldness because that also has to be said and so you've had the experience
described briefly what took place just to give us a perspective and I love that
attitude that you know our pain often drives our passion so I'm sure that's
part of your story yeah but what happened that was about 10 I'm not
exactly sure how old I was so around 10 and it was an extended family member a
male who participated in inappropriate touching and requested the same type of
touching done to him so that that was taking place only during some visits so
was there isolated in maybe three or four times but I had really good parents
so they had the lines of communication parents and parents they were converted
during the 70s Jesus Movement right so I love him already it's my parents are
Christians were involved in church and and because of their past and they had a
really strong sense of the grace of God and the grace of God is for everything
all the way down from you know head to toe top to bottom
that's all creation everything needs to be influenced by the grace of God every
experience so they didn't do shame like when we talked about you know how babies
are made it it wasn't awkward it wasn't weird my dad's an artist he was drawing
body part pictures of like whole bodies not just body parts but so the logic
we're open thankfully because of God's grace it didn't affect me as much as it
could have sure and and I can't explain why it didn't but let me let me ask you
this said the benefit of the parents it's not
to indulge the details of this at all but as that little boy what were some of
those thoughts that you can remember about why is this right what were some
of those things that ran through your head that that instinctively even as a
10 year old boy you kind of had questions about I was
really curious so that was the first thing and one of the things that I knew
my curiosity wasn't a bad thing I knew wonder and being curious was okay but I
was curious I was going through my head I thought maybe I wanted it or asked for
it in some way I thought I did something so I thought I was the I thought I was
the reason that it happened and that's almost universal isn't it it's very
typical and this isn't it Lindsay yes yeah almost all children think that they
were to blame for it either because of just their curiosity muddies the water
form or any think okay I was curious I guess I wanted that but also because
frequently perpetrators will tell them I did this because you did this or you
said this or or the worst we've heard those dirty things happen to dirty kids
into having imagining a little kid who already feels isolated and and being
told by someone dirty things happened dirty kids that's the Spurs telling an
identity that the gospel has to undo right and that's that's where the real
power in in sting of the sin and crime is the the long-term effects that it
does the children it's a nun agna fight for the victim and it's what's
unbelievable and I mean it gets in between how they view themselves how
they view other people and how they view God so they feel isolated and shamed and
that was the one thing that I did feel was kind of dirty and shame do you feel
I mean I see the emotion I'm hearing the emotion in your voice do you feel like
over all these years now you've you've gotten a healthier grip on this you
seemed to but obviously the pain is still there yeah well the
thankfully being married to a good wife always who's an expert on this who who
knows how to you know I remember when we were dating I told her just various
stories and I remember her kindness then and just saying hey that's you know and
just for response so that that's really again wasn't shaming not even close to
me I was the opposite and in you know we've done the stuff because of you know
personal and we said personal professional and pastoral everyone
thought and we said personal it was Lindsay now because we didn't we didn't
we weren't clear in some of our previous things that we've written about my
personal strengths but then when you have you know being a pastor this is
this is just par for the course of just regular conversations with people where
people are coming to me saying hey I think I've heard you mention this in the
sermon I think I can tell you about this so just the stories that you hear I mean
we hear horror stories and then professionally Lindsay was a case
manager at a you know abuse crisis center so when we were dating this I
mean all came together all three of those professionally personally in
pastoral so let's go through some of the practical applications of that out of
your book God made all of me start with that younger child let's just the two of
you can just talk about it with me as if I were a young dad oh I wish what would
you say to counsel me you know I come to you my wife's here hey Jeanne here we
are you're the pastor and you know we've got
kind of an issue we got a three year old we're not sure what we need to say there
might be some behavior that that's concerning us what what do you say to me
is mom and dad well one thing that I would start with I'd say I'm really glad
you're asking this question and just to convince you that this is important just
and I realized early on were like gosh as parents we teach our kids water
safety we teach them safety around the stove we
teach them safety don't touch the outlets you know and what to do in the
event of X Y & Z if there's a fire and so but this is a topic that we don't
necessarily or you know automatically teach children speak to the parent right
there convince me tell me why you need to
consider this it's like a flame on the stove or something else it's the
practical sure I think the main thing is anything you can do to help your child
have tools about body safety body protection tools for you to talk with
them one makes it not awkward two is preventative and I know that you would
want that for your child you want to set them up with the most success that they
can live their life with control over their body good and safe boundaries and
just to feel empowered in that sense that's your job as a parent and then
with the child give me two or three practical quick you know examples of
things I can continue to say to them I like the swimsuit diagram or discussion
you know that anything under the swimsuit is for you and private when the
swimsuit analogy is really a good starting point but don't stop there
because a perpetrator can touch other parts of their body that might make the
child feel uncomfortable that's good you don't want them to think well they're
touching my thigh or my back so that's her or I worked with a three-year-old
who was kissed by their uncle but yet that didn't fall in the bathing suit
category and so you want to take it that your whole body is yours but you can
start with the swimsuit analogy that's really good but take it further
well that mean this is the private parts conversation so I mean was this is what
we will always tell and people come over to our house for dinner so we actually
have these conversations these are your dinner conversations people people say
hey I got a quick question can I ask well that's good though so you said if
you're the young parent we would say well you have to have a conversation
with your children about private parts though you mean God made all of you but
especially private parts and one name the private part naming the proper names
for private parts right and there's a whole reason for that the proper name
yeah now some some can disagree with that but what why is that so critical
well what you don't want to do is turn their private parts into give them just
nicknames and we're not saying only use private part or proper names for private
parts all the time like you're a doctor but if you only use nicknames it can
turn private parts into playthings and that's what a perpetrator the purpose is
to prevent against a perpetrator as a perpetrator will say oh what about this
and use a playful nickname thing it also doesn't bestow dignity to
everything that God created I mean this is my elbow and this is my nose this is
what it is it's just being matter-of-fact correct so it's not
trying to demystify yeah demystifies it and and also because if a child is
touched inappropriately they're gonna need to be able to report or say what
happened and we're just matter-of-factly so it's just for the sake of reporting
police officers and those who during investigation would love it if children
knew the proper names and there are children who have never heard the proper
names right until they're like teenagers and they got the awkward talk at 15
about you know stuff they already knew from you know ten years ago let me ask
you about the suspicion you know the the parents that think maybe something's
different now our daughter or our son is more in tune with those private areas
than they should be right now or you may suspect something because of that has
happened how do you begin to discuss that with your child in such a way that
it's productive and that you begin to uncover some impropriety
I would tell I mean I have had some parents that ask me they say you know
when their child's around five or six you know they're really curious and I
say well on one level that's healthy sexual development like they are curious
about their bodies they do want to know a lot they have a lot of baby questions
around that age so parents can go online and look up what's healthy sexual
development like what are certain things that kids at age five versus eight or
ten that they're gonna be noticing or aware of but if a parent starts to
notice changes in their child apart from their normal behavior that might be
something where they want to either start asking them you know why are you
doing these things or what's causing this but hopefully they have a
foundation built where they're able to have those conversations but if not I
mean you don't want to hold back just a heron even if you haven't done that job
don't if something in your gut is telling you there's something off pursue
it wouldn't you agree I always say follow your gut for sure
never deny everything we're pretty I mean when you get the questions that's a
great intro a point to the conversation in general
of just body parts God forgot what God made so so their curiosity you know puts
the question on the table to talk about this but the other thing that we've done
regularly is if the girls have a question Lindsey will pursue it and say
okay no showing us for the question but also what is a straight up you know do
you feel comfortable with that person has anyone you know do you do you like
it when that babysitter is with you do they ever talk to you about stuff that's
inappropriate or have they ever touched you so we just ask point like it's norm
that's what we did as well normal for our kids and we don't do it every single
time we don't want to instill fear in them to think that everyone is a sneaky
person but we want them to be aware that everyone's potentially one it's such a
balance it give us also some tools and again the book is great in this area you
can just read it if you're uncomfortable this this resource is terrific because
it will allow you to simply read it with your child that's actually the purpose
what we did on the book and we've got we had the minor criticism we get is that
it's actually a story about a family having the conversation yeah and it's
not it which is brilliant it's not dazzlingly with like really neat animals
and right you know things that would be really just captured kids imagination
it's a story about a family doing the conversation so you're actually kind of
you're having the conversation with your children but it's an indirect way to do
it which is much more comfortable that's what I love about it God made all of me
but I want to also encourage the parents to be on alert and have that vigilance
so what are some of those things external to the child's behavior so we
dealt with that but when you're looking at environment and you're looking at
babysitters and you're looking at extended family members and all those
kinds of things it sounds horrible that you as a parent would even have to have
that in the back your mind but what are some of those cueing things again not
related to your child's behavior but just knowing the family or the neighbors
well enough what are some things you can be alert to that if you're not could
pose danger one for me is if someone cannot pay attention to and respect
boundaries that are given that's a huge red flag for me so if you say to the
family members hey like you know there's no reason to close the doors and our
girls know when kids come they don't close the doors so if a
family member had to fill that need to violate that basic boundary of shutting
the doors or if the neighbor did that that would be significant to me of why
we don't need to have the door shut and we don't need to have secrets those are
those are important ones for me well one scenario I heard from a good
friend was her stepfather was trying to isolate the child like will you come
down in the basement and play with me and so getting the child away from all
other family members and that where I said that's a huge red flag because
there's no reason why they need to be down in the basement playing of course
you know we don't need to walk around with fear from every person but why
can't they play upstairs with everybody or you march right on down there mom and
you join the group so anytime they're wanting to isolate a child or really
single out a child with gifts and with toys and treasures to try and win their
trust in a different way I think is a big big red flag yeah for sure but as
Christian parents particularly how do we not live in fear and and be able to
communicate to our children that we want you to have a full wonderful life and
not be that mom that's so panic Lindsay if I could be that bold you know honey
don't go over there don't don't get an ice cream there don't do this don't talk
to that person and you can over a kind of react to some of this too right
absolutely I don't want anybody to walk around paranoid but I feel pretty
confident as we've been building the foundation with our girls even though
they're only seven and almost nine that they are going to tell us things and
that we have that level of trust of back and forth conversation that if something
god forbid happens we'll address it and I'll tell them I believe you and we're
going to look at all the options of ways that we can get help but I feel like
we've built a foundation that they feel very empowered about their body and I
feel empowered as a parent that if I were going to take them to a playdate or
wherever that I'm gonna feel confident to ask who's here what grown-ups are
here even going to church I think there's a lot of ways we assume as
Christians that things have been taken care of with background checks and who's
in charge of our children but as a parent I have that right to ask who's
taking my child to the bathroom and so on one level my child is empowered but I
also feel the confidence to to speak up and ask you know who are they around I
appreciate that you don't be intimidated by protecting your child's I mean that
that's sounds simple but for many parents that's hard and going back to
the why why not to be fearful and paralyzed in fear one is that God's plan
for how he made bodies was to multiply and have dominion going back to Genesis
and and what was required for that was marital intimacy for two the very call
that God gave Adam and Eve multiply and have dominion and the only way you can
do that until evangelism in Matthew 28 his procreation and so God God makes
this and then it gets distorted by Satan in the fall and then he's about
redeeming what's been distorted and God is and will redeem as his creation he
cares more than we do he cares about our children more than we do and in the
other thing that's just encouraging practically is that the children who are
the most protector the ones that have caregivers who actually empower them if
if you do three or four of the basic things that we've talked about
it sets up a guard against it so it's not a foolproof it's not a silver bullet
it's going to take care of the problem but when the best thing you can do is
actually have basic lines of communication open and the confidence
you can have of what that type of protecting your child and equipping them
is actually very very effective one of the most effective things you can
actually do well I so appreciate this and Justin and Lindsey a good great
discussion really and I'm glad we've kind of pulled the veil back a bit to
talk and equip parents to be able to be comfortable hopefully more comfortable
in having this discussion and again your book is a great resource for all parents
God made all of me and this is something you need to implement and we have
counselors here too I'm mindful of the folks maybe Justin like you and they
haven't been able to find the courage yet to say that was me and it may be
driving some of that fear and you may be parenting in such a way that isn't as
helpful as you it might be we're here for you there's
no embarrassing question ask us we might have some embarrassing answers for you
but we want to be walking this journey with you no matter where you're at and
again thank you so much for being with us
thank you for the opportunity to be here and talk about such an important dark
subject and shining a light on it amen hey I'm John fuller and thanks for
watching get more info about focus over here and more from our guests over there
and be sure to subscribe to our channel as well
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