Hello, everybody, this is Jack
from tofluency.com,
along with-- Kate.
And we are back with another conversation
in both British and American English.
Now, be sure to check out the description
for a list of the words and phrases
that we use in this conversation.
And the idea behind this
is to give you a conversation to listen to
so that you can improve your English.
And today, we are going to talk about--
Sleep. Sleep.
Which we're actually talking about this
on the way to the office today,
and coming up with different terms
and different topics of discussion.
We're gonna talk about a lack of sleep,
tips for better sleep,
although we don't know much about that.
No, we're in a little bit
of a not well rested phase in our lives.
Yeah, and a great place to start
is the term "suffering from a lack of sleep."
Uh-huh, sleep deprivation is the extreme end of that,
but right now we're not sleeping very well.
And this just means that you don't get
as much sleep as you need.
How many hours do you need a night do you think?
I've heard that the average for an adult is about eight.
About eight. Yeah.
Yeah. That's a good amount.
Yeah, I've heard six to eight is what most people need.
I do remember, I think it was Margaret Thatcher,
she managed to get by on four hours of sleep.
Wow.
All her life.
That's amazing. Which is crazy.
That is unreal.
I couldn't even imagine that, especially as a child,
you know, going to to bed at seven,
and then they would wake up at one o'clock
to start the day.
It was probably in her adult years.
Okay.
But yeah, she just needed four hours of sleep to get by.
How much sleep do you need to function?
Me, personally? You personally.
Seven. Seven?
Yeah.
Six is okay. Mm-hmm.
Four, I'm entering into that, "Am I alive,
"am I dreaming" territory during the day.
You know? (chuckles) Yeah.
And you sleep--
you're not sleeping very well. No, I'm not.
Ideally, I think I need more sleep than you do.
Yeah, I think so.
I think in a perfect world,
I would sleep nine or 10 hours a night.
(huffs) Nine to 10 hours. I know, I know.
Yeah. Yeah.
But if I get six, then I get that adrenaline going
when I'm not sleeping,
and you just power through.
Yeah, power through, which-- Drink a lot of coffee.
Yeah, to power through means like you just go for it,
and you ride the wave,
and you just keep going even though you're struggling.
It just made me think about
what type of sleep we used to get.
What time we used to go to bed--
Uh-huh. And wake up.
And it was very different to what we do now.
I almost don't want to admit it.
Well, we have to tell 'em.
We used to go to bed--
it was very rare that we went to sleep before 12 o'clock.
Yeah. Before midnight.
Very rare.
And we used to have long lie ins, didn't we?
Yeah, we used to--
in America, we say "sleep in." Oh, yeah.
We used to sleep in until like 9:30 or 10.
Oh, later than that.
Don't--
yeah, well--
That's hard to imagine right now. (chuckles)
And that happened a lot in Spain.
Uh-huh.
We would wake up very late. Mm-hmm.
But we also taught quite late most days.
Mm-hmm.
And I remember those eight o'clock mornings
when I had to get to language school by nine.
They were brutal. Yeah.
At university, too.
(chuckles)
I used to go to bed really late,
and it was very rare that I got up before 11 am.
Did you ever pull an all-nighter?
Oh, yeah.
Every time I had an exam. Uh-huh.
I couldn't sleep before exams.
Mm-hmm. I found it impossible.
Just the nerves? Yeah!
I wasn't that nervous, but it became a habit.
Mm-hmm.
It became a routine for me
that I just couldn't get to sleep before exams.
Sometimes I would procrastinate,
and then I would have a big paper due, or an exam,
and I would pull an all-nighter.
Or several papers or exams. (chuckles)
You pulled an all-nighter once
before you came to visit me
for Christmas. I did!
It was the first time that I went to the UK.
First time I was meeting your friends, meeting your family.
The very first time.
And the night before, I had a major paper due.
Mm-hmm. I pulled an all-nighter.
Yup.
Sent my professor the wrong draft.
I didn't know that. Yes.
Sent my professor the wrong draft.
Then I got on the plane,
and I was so excited to see you
that I couldn't sleep at all.
And it was like 24 hours of travel,
so by the time that I met your family,
I had been awake for 36 hours.
And do you remember what happened in the car?
Well, you came off the plane like a zombie.
(chuckles) Yes. To begin with.
I'm sure that you thought, "Oh,
"this girl that I'm in love with,"
you know, who, you didn't know then,
but would eventually be your wife,
and you're gonna meet her,
and like introduce her to your family,
and I just come off and I'm completely-- (chuckles)
Well, yeah, and that night we went to the pub,
and then the following day we went to a football game.
Mm-hmm. A soccer game.
And it was a big derby between Preston and Bernly.
Like a rivalry. Yeah.
And you fell asleep in the car with your mouth open.
I remember waking up and just feeling
like my mouth was so dry,
and I might have been drooling.
Probably. Can we say drooling?
We took some photos. So embarrassing.
You did?
Yeah, I've never told you that, have I?
No. (chuckles) Yeah.
Well, Mark did.
Let's just blame Mark.
(chuckles)
Movin' on--
That's awful.
(chuckles) Yeah.
I can't believe that.
Speaking of which, though,
are you a light or a heavy sleeper?
I'm an extremely light sleeper.
Yeah, which means that you wake up very easily
during the night. Mm-hmm.
If there's a sound or, you know,
anything that happens, you're awake.
I'm awake instantly. Yeah.
You're a much heavier sleeper.
I didn't used to be.
No? No.
Oh, yeah.
I remember that.
Yeah.
It was before Kate,
I was just a very light sleeper.
Uh-huh.
After Kate, I was a deep sleeper.
It's amazing, it switched like that.
You were such a light sleeper,
and now you don't wake up ever. (laughs)
No. No, I don't.
Well, I do sometimes,
but I will wake up,
and then get back to sleep straight away.
Last night I woke up two or three times,
and I went back to sleep straight away.
Let's move on.
Let's talk about
what you need to do to get ideal sleep.
Mm-hmm.
What are some of the things that you can do
to make sure that you can fall asleep easily--
Uh-huh. And sleep through the night.
And I know I'm probably asking the wrong person.
No, no, no, you are asking the right person.
Just because I'm not doing it,
doesn't mean that I don't think about it all the time.
Right. And I have lots of ideas.
Share them. Okay.
So I think that the first thing
that you need to do to have ideal sleep
is to have a clear mind. Mm-hmm, yup.
So I think that a lot of things that you need to do,
if you have anything that you're worried about,
if you have anything that's causing
you stress during the day,
to just sit down and to make a list, to make a plan,
and that way it's off your chest.
No, it's true, I would-- No.
Write it down. But you don't do that.
No. You tell me.
I tell you. The problems. (chuckles)
You're like my journal. (laughs)
You just, what do we call it when you, uh,
is it like Kate-- I muse.
Yeah, I muse at night.
So before I go to bed, I just think about all the things,
then I tell Jack all of them.
Except now you have these earphones.
You put in earphones,
and just, every now and then, just, "Uh-huh.
"Yup, uh-huh."
Yeah, I mean, (chuckles) it happened last night.
(chuckles) It did.
At one stage I said, "Do you not realize
"I'm listening to a podcast?"
Oh, yes.
(chuckles) Do you not realize that's what I'm doing?
That's okay, because--
because I was just off-loading all of my worries,
all of my problems, all of my stress.
You can have them. Yup.
Especially if you're not really listening.
So that's one thing. Yeah, that works.
I think also it's really important
to not have sugar, or alcohol, caffeine before bed,
'cause that can really mess with your sleep.
Especially now that we're older.
Like I used to be able to drink anything
or eat anything and sleep completely soundly.
What if it's the placebo effect a little bit?
'Cause I used to always have a cup of tea,
this is very British, but, you know,
when we got home from work,
we would have a cup of tea. Mm-hmm.
6:30.
And then again, thinking about it,
I couldn't get to sleep that-- (chuckles)
Maybe that's why you were a light sleeper.
Yeah, 'cause I had caffeine throughout the afternoon.
Yeah.
We used to have eight cups of tea at work a day.
It's not as strong as coffee,
but there's still caffeine in it.
Mm-hmm.
And then when we got home, there's a cup of tea.
Yeah. And then dinner.
That's probably why I was a light sleeper.
There you go.
So caffeine--
So basically, you need to start drinking tea
in the evening now. Why?
So we're equal levels of light sleeper.
You should come to my side. Come to your side, okay.
Fair enough.
Caffeine, what about temperature?
Okay, so I have a theory
about ideal sleep conditions. Mm-hmm.
And you can disagree with me,
but here's what I think make ideal sleep conditions, okay?
First of all, you have your cozy pajamas,
you're all de-stressed-- Yup.
Maybe you like spritz a little lavender
on your pillow or take a shower,
but anyway, the room is cool. Yes, I agree with that.
Maybe 65, 67 degrees.
That's what science says.
And I think it's also important
to have a warm but heavy blanket.
I've heard that if the blanket is physically heavier,
if it weighs more, it'll help you sleep better.
So a heavy blanket allows you to sleep better.
Yeah. Yeah, I've heard that, too.
Yeah.
But then you need a cool room,
and that kind of works with a heavy blanket
at the same time. A heavy blanket, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Because I think there's a study on that
in terms of the ideal temperature,
and it's about 65 degrees fahrenheit.
We're not talking celsius.
What would that be in celsius?
Um, 18?
Wow, that sounds so cold to me.
17, maybe?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, something like that anyway.
(chuckles)
So science says--
Science says 65 degrees.
Yeah.
Something that has happened recently,
while we're, you know,
the time of year that we're filming this,
is daylight savings and the clock changing.
Yes.
And a good way to remember it
is to spring forward, fall back.
Some phraser verbs there, to fall back.
Yeah.
And we have just had that time change,
so six o'clock is now five o'clock.
It's really hard to explain sometimes,
and everybody gets confused.
Everyone's saying, "Are we going back?
"Are we going forward?
"Is this the good one?" Mm-hmm.
'Cause there's a good one, right?
This is the good one.
Because you get that extra hour in bed.
Unless you're a parent. Unless you're a parent.
So, and we haven't mentioned this at all,
because I think we didn't want to talk
too much about being parents,
but that's the reason
why we are so sleep deprived right now.
Our one-year-old is not sleeping very well,
and hasn't slept through the night yet.
Yes, to sleep through the night,
which just means that you go to sleep
at bedtime and you wake up at a good time.
And you don't wake up during the night.
Yeah, sleep through the night.
And I have to say here, we have a new light,
but otherwise, (chuckles)
we probably look really tired.
We probably look really tired. (chuckles)
And there's a really good thing to mention here,
the bags under your eyes.
Yeah. Yeah.
Which is when it's like you look tired under here.
You get bags under your eyes.
So thank you for this light.
It's helping us. Mm-hmm.
Do you take naps at all?
I wish I could nap.
Naps are just amazing if you can do it.
Like, I think you have to have the perfect amount of time,
otherwise, you feel so groggy.
Oh, there are different types of naps.
There's one where you get about half an hour,
and you wake up and you think,
"I needed that nap, I feel great."
Mm-hmm.
And then there's the other one,
where you wake up and you're like,
"I don't know where I am."
You don't know who you are. (chuckles)
Exactly, you just don't know what is going on.
Yes.
So there are definitely different types of naps.
And it's so funny because
our four-year-old just stopped napping,
and our one-year-old naps a few times.
I know we're not talking too much about it--
But we are. But kids hate napping.
Yeah.
I don't know why.
Well,
as a kid, you don't want to go to bed.
You don't want to miss out.
No, you want to play as long as you can.
And even though you feel really tired,
you fight it. Yup.
And we sometimes do that, too.
True, especially in the evening when it's just us
and we're having some time to just hang out
or do something that we want to do,
or watch a TV show.
Sometimes we get really into a TV show,
and they always end on a cliffhanger,
so you want to know what happens next.
Yup.
And then we watch the next episode,
and we stay up later than we should.
What show are we into at the moment?
Stranger Things.
Yeah, we've only watched one episode of season two.
Can you catch up on sleep,
and what does that mean to catch up on sleep?
Mm-hmm.
So I think that to catch up on sleep,
so when you're in a state where you're sleep deprived,
you're not getting the sleep that you need,
and then you get some time,
and you get to sleep a few extra hours one night,
then you feel like you've caught up.
Mm-hmm.
I've heard so many scientific studies
say that that's impossible to do, but--
It's stupid. Yeah.
It's blatantly obvious that you can catch up on sleep.
Yes.
Because one night, if you sleep for one hour,
and then the next night, you sleep longer than usual.
Mm-hmm. Every time.
Unless, you know, you're in this kind of phase
where you're, what's the term?
When you can't sleep?
If you have insomnia.
Yeah, if you have insomnia. And I have insomnia, yes.
I remember one time when I went
on a lad's holiday.
(chuckles) Go on.
Which means there were, I think, 12 of us,
we're all 17. Mm-hmm.
And we went away for a week. Mm-hmm.
And you can imagine that we didn't prioritize sleep.
No, I can imagine that.
We stayed up late, we got up early,
and we were young, so we could do it.
But when I got home, I slept for 18 hours.
Wow.
18 hours, wonderful.
Mm-hmm.
And I caught up on sleep.
Yeah, and when you're sick, you sleep a lot, too.
Yeah.
You catch up.
Yeah, you catch up on sleep when you're sick, too.
Or I guess you just sleep longer.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
I have a kind of a strange question for you.
Go on.
'Cause-- Oh, for everyone.
Oh, yeah? Yeah.
Okay. Yeah.
But I'll answer, too.
Yeah, you answer, too.
Because we've been waking up so frequently,
a lot of times when I wake up,
I'll wake up in the middle of a dream.
And so I'll remember it in a way that I wouldn't
if I'd gone back into the sleep cycle,
and then I would have totally forgotten it by the morning.
So I'm just having all sorts of dreams
that I'm remembering now.
Do you dream a lot?
I can't really remember some recent dreams.
Mm-hmm.
And it's strange, like, sometimes,
you have the thought of a dream, but from--
and you don't know.
Was it yesterday?
But it feels like it was 10 years ago
when I had this dream. Yes.
And I'm just experiencing that again now.
Yes. That's the strangest thing.
It is.
But I don't, I can't remember a recent dream.
Usually, though, they're pretty boring these days.
Really?
In terms of, like, I'm thinking about something at night,
I'll dream about it. Yeah.
It's very simple.
I know sometimes when we take like really long road trips,
or when we used to, and there would be a lot of driving.
And then you'd go sleep,
and you'd still be driving in your head.
Has that ever happened to you? That's the strangest thing.
Yeah.
Yeah, when you're driving,
especially for hours and hours and hours.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Do you want to remember your dreams?
Not particularly.
I think dreams are so fascinating,
and my younger sister has gotten really into dreams,
and into kind of this way of dreaming
where she remembers her dreams,
and she can kind of control her dreams as she's dreaming,
and I think that's really interesting.
Which is called?
Isn't it lucid dreaming? Yeah.
Lucid dreaming.
And this reminds me of the film Vanilla Sky.
And Inception.
Oh, and Inception.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sometimes, though, I don't like films
where you don't know if it's a dream or not.
Oh, yeah, that's the worst.
That just gives them full power over,
"Oh, well, that scene wasn't real,
"because it was just a dream."
Yeah, that's the worst.
Or when a story ends, and then it's the,
"And she woke up, and it was all a dream."
Exactly, mm-hmm.
That's frustrating.
Do you have a question for people?
Because it's time for Kate's question.
Oh, can it be the one about dreaming?
Well, I thought about-- A better question?
Yeah, like,
how much sleep do you need?
How much sleep do you need?
Tell us.
Yeah, and how much sleep are you getting?
Because either you're getting tons,
and tons, and tons of sleep,
in which case I want to know,
so I can live vicariously through you,
so I can pretend that I'm getting that much sleep, too.
And if you're not, then join the club.
Yeah. (chuckles)
I actually got a comment from somebody
on the Facebook page. Mm-hmm.
I asked a question, "Complete the sentence,
'This morning, I--'"
And someone said, "Woke up,
"thought it was morning, but realized it was the afternoon.
"'Cause I woke up at 2:30 pm."
Oh my gosh, yeah.
Oh, and sleeping through your alarm clock.
Like, we don't even have an alarm clock anymore.
'Cause we never sleep past six o'clock.
No. I wish.
So yeah, the question is how much sleep
are you currently getting,
and is it enough for you at the moment?
Yeah, and feel free to talk about, too,
what is your ideal sleep conditions.
I know we talked about a cold room with a heavy blanket,
but that's kind of boring.
Like, maybe you want to sleep on a beach,
or in a hammock, or out in a tent
if you can go camping and sleep in a tent
which I can't do. No.
No, 'cause I'm a light sleeper.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.
And it's cold. It's cold.
Yeah, so I hope you have enjoyed this conversation.
I'll leave the key words and phrases
in the description below,
and feel free to watch more of our conversations.
I'll leave some videos on your screen.
Bye for now. Bye.
Sleep well. Oh, and sleep well.
(bluesy rock music)
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