okay let's me explain what's going on I decide to make a series of videos about
CCD I heard from some beekeepers in the area there was some big losses going on
they start to talk about the word colony collapse disorder again
I also saw in the news some articles regarding CCD so I don't know if the
topic is up again and hot, so I decided to do this, I'm gonna ask private
industry university researchers government institution and beekeepers a
very simple question. What is the good the bad and the ugly? about Colony Collapse
Disorder. Colony Collapse disorder was a very intriguing phenomena nobody really knew
what was going on but the consensus right now is that it is a multi factorial thing that
affect the bees and may make them sick and they die, so viruses, bacteria, fungi
pesticide, pool nutrition, etc but my point is after twelve years of research
what we learned, I what is new, what's going on regarding CCD everybody is
satisfied with the answers we got so far? I don't think so
there is a lot of frustration around there and I wanna ask this very
influential people about their opinion about CCD so before further do my first
guest was Jay Evans Dr. Jay Evans from USDA research Bee research lab, he's the
research leader there and he's working with CCD for 12 years now. Since I got
in the lab in 2008 I could see the people that are working for from
the very beginning when everything started. So Jay might have very
interesting things to say about CCD and he invited me to his house. A
beautiful farm with lots of animals, a very very interesting and
very nice afternoon we spent together talking about CCD. I hope you guys
enjoy please subscribe to follow up the all those these new interviews that are
going to be making and before further do let's talk about bees. Hey Jay it's
good to see you, you live in a fantastic place Jay look at. that do you mind if I
show everybody.
and today I'm here with Jay Evans USDA Bee research lab leader and we were talking
about CCD today. How are you Jay? I'm doing fine thank you Humberto and thanks
for the chance to talk with you I'm really excited about your channel I
think this is a great way for scientists and beekeepers to connect and share
their own insights or their own backgrounds and I really appreciate what
you're doing there and as always look forward to speaking with you
what I'm trying to do here is to create a community and where everybody can
can ask questions and I'm going to try, together with specialists like
Jay - to answer all of those so that's we're trying to do here and today we're
talking about something that's a little
unsettle, that is a good word to put it, colony collapse
disorder Jay I have a couple questions it's been twelve years. I started to work
with you and your people at the USDA me research lab in 2007
something like that it's been a while I spend a lot of my time with CCD samples
trying to figure out that what that is it's been 12 years now and
I still with that feeling that something is not solved. Where are we with CCD and
where we go me are we okay with whatever there can we do better what's going on
well it's that's many good questions there and I think I think in my sense I
also have to step back way before you and I in the history of beekeeping and
bee research and colony collapse disorder or phenomena like this had been
observed over time or centuries even by beekeepers events
that were unexplainable by the measurements of the day perhaps the tool
available and that's that's the challenge that is presented I think
there were a few beekeepers in the the world and active and a few
scientists who had seems phenomena like CCD in the 1980s and this sort of rang a
bell with them so when when it first came up in 2006 2007 as as you mentioned
when you started researching it with us for all of us it was a new phenomenon we
hadn't seen hadn't really thought about something like this but for a few in the
room they'd seen similar events in the past and and they can offer their
insights and maybe their frustrations in those past events so it is as you know
it's a it's a syndrome or a phenomenon that's defined by what's not there
almost as much as what is there. Colony collapse disorder is defined by a
rapid loss of worker bees within the colony
apparently not related to the health of the Queen because there's brew there's
food available to raise those brood, but something happened in the recent history
of these colonies were by the workers decrease dropped away from the colony
and in the views of many people and from the outside if you're not monitoring it
by the hour it looks as if a bunch of bees just flew off and forgot how to
come home and that's that's almost all many of us had to go with when we first
were introduced to this phenomenon . Can be very complicated to study something that
you can't see, exactly yeah it's a it's a it's a negative symptom as of worse that
we had to work with that. So where we are now? Can you tell me the GOOD the BAD and
the UGLY about CCD
I'll try well I think the good in this you were a big part of this with your
virus work is that when this happened there was a great enthusiasm amongst
many researchers to try to tackle this I think everybody had ideas energy
collaborations we brought in many people who are new to the honeybee field who
came in with their talents perhaps they were seeking fame perhaps
they were seeking vast wealth or but in many cases they were seeking altruistically
to try to help address this phenomenon so are the ranks of
researchers studying honeybee health I'd say almost doubled within the first year
because of this new interest in solving this phenomenon so that was the good
part we had new talents and new energies for honeybee research, moving on to the
bad I'd say the the bad really arose over time when when for all of this
effort we didn't see any quick answers we didn't find phenomena that were
repeatable in each instance of colony collapse disorder and again by the
absence in some cases of the actual subjects who had died we didn't have
materials to really resolve this. it's not to say we hadn't know nothing to
work with we had dead bodies in many cases we had
hive materials that could be analyzed for pesticides for nutritional status
and so we did have you know some elements that we could start to tackle
this phenomenon but as time went by as you know none of those really were the
complete answer to what the beekeepers had observed in the field. It is it is a
very complicated field to study I jumped from human virology to honeybee virology
because my father was a beekeeper I had the virology background so it was good
combination to come in and start to join the team in the help and I could see my
in my bench how difficult is to work with bees and how challenging is to
isolate the variables that we need to isolate to get concrete and repeatable
answers well what your thoughts on that is why it's so hard to have a complete
repeatable results in the honeybee field well complex question I think in many
ways it's a part of it I think we really were facing a multi-faceted syndrome
there were things going on that weren't simply you know represented by a single
flu virus or virus coming through although many of us still hold tight to
the virus viruses being an important factor in this so I think that biology
was complex but then as you touched on we also come into this with our own
backgrounds maybe biases what I'm largely an indoor biologist these days
and and I see different things than then I would see where I out with the bees
day in and day out and so it took us a while I think as communities to kind of
come together and see to talk to each other to be able to explain what really
clearly what had been seeing based on laboratory results and for the beekeeper
standpoint and the field researchers what they were seeing in the field that
was really solid and and diagnostic for this syndrome so I think all of us took
us a little while to get maybe to get used to each other as it were and to try
to understand each other's strengths in this and also our own weaknesses yy-you
know I many of us thought that by following this with our approaches
again whether in the laboratory of the field we would be able to push the the
direction such that we get some real answers to this and I think we did give
answers I mean we've learned a tremendous amount about honeybee disease
for example viruses that were previously unknown impacts of viruses and mites and
bacteria gut bacteria good and bad none of which we really knew that much about
than this all started so we've learned a lot we've learned a tremendous of a lot
a lot about field biology and feel beekeeping from the national surveys
that are going on and from really hard sort of painstaking field experiments
that were attempted to try to replicate CCD or to track beekeepers in the field
and see over time how they manage their bees and also what stresses those beets
were facing in the field so so I think it gets back to the good I suppose that
if you look at the collection of knowledge around beekeeping it's gone up
you know by half or maybe tenfold in the last ten years tremendous amount of
knowledge and then the frustration of course is that we're still facing many
colony losses such as CCD and and so that's the goal also for the future is
to really expand you know maybe pull that knowledge back into a way that we
can we can make a difference to really understand these these effects
one thing that I've been traveling around us talking with lots of
beekeepers and seeing different things seeing different realities and one of
the people were commenting a lot about the researcher can the research
community is not reaching out too much I got a lot of people putting things in my
face and saying those things to me nobody comes here
somebody come here come a little kid and try to address the problem so fast that
we just don't even trust anybody. I could agree Jay to be honest when I was
there talked with the beekeepers and see the realities and see the fears and see
everything that was going on with them and they share their feelings I could
agree. What can we do to make this better are the USDA trying to reach more how can
we do it because one of the reason why I'm trying to do this channel is also to
fill that gap to try to reach more people and people to have the
opportunity to reach us as researchers and we can know faster what's going on
and see if we can help better or faster our USDA doing something
like that? can be what we do? what can we do now I you touched on a really
important topic I mean we do research studies some of which take two years
maybe and they go into you know the sort of collection of knowledge about bees
and their stresses and even when they're focused on the problems that are
relevant to beekeepers we have often failed in in presenting that work and
translating it into something that they could use to manage the bees or or also
maybe more importantly we sometimes forget to to listen to what's going on
in the field or to get an opportunity as you've done to go or with beekeepers of
all sizes from the biggest operations into the backyard beekeeper and sort of
get to ground truth what's going on there as as opposed to what we've picked
up from these surveys and and our own studies so yeah I think we're all a
little bit guilty of these barriers some of it is is simply a function of time to
get out and do these studies and some of it is I think again different
communities you know for so much focused and embedded in a research community we
might be less aware of what's going on on the ground which is really why we're
here applied be researchers as we want to
have a healthy be community both tiny bees and other bees and we want to do
our part if we can to keep it that way so yeah that's that's you know I think
I've learned as much about Sciences about it and sociology in the last ten
years from all of this because I have realized that that we have a duty as
scientists and we had neglected that in some ways to to reach out a bit more
it's not to say there haven't been great researchers that the universities and
the USDA who have done that and I think they've done tremendous jobs for decades
and decades so there are there are good examples of that going on and that have
been going on but I think I think for all of us we could we could um stand it
maybe drop some of those barriers a little bit. Something that I realized
in those travel in my trips with the beekeepers je was something that maybe
is the other side - with the beekeepers but the last example was this lithium
chloride thing I don't know if you if you read the paper in solid paper and
the whole social media just got crazy and in four days the stock of lithium
chloride on Amazon was gone so beekeeping seeing news and started take
actions and things that are not completely authorized for that or not
relieves it's probably illegal you know this action and this without
proper orientation or study that can really make the load of damage I don't
know I would like to hear from you also about that how can we change it how the
beekeepers can feel confident maybe to reach out or or stop to do this kind of
thing to self-medication or well at least I don't know what's
your opinion about this self medication or actions and happens all the time it
does happen and I think it's maybe comes out of a desire and need to keep these
bees who people are deeply attached to alive and this study which is again
happening in real-time in front of us the actual result interesting result in
this case was carried out by a very very careful researcher in Germany who each I
respect too much ride was doing other projects and actually discovered this
impact on varroa mites of this compound but advertised even at the time and it
is sort of early statements on this as he tries to develop it that that there
were some adverse effects on bees and I think anytime you're trying a high
concentration of a new compound or chemical you can expect the potential
for risk and that's why we do have regulation on these and and a process so
so I think the risk for that and other new products has to has to be checked
both for the bees themselves as yes as you've mentioned we've started to see
adverse effects and for the humans right we don't want anything about the hive is
should be a an environment that's that's free of these you know treatments
inadvertent or planned or unplanned or from the environment or from the
beekeeper because that's the others there's a great value certainly in the
health of the bees but also the purity of the honey that wax and such and so so
this was a case I think where it maybe got a little too much
excitement, work and excitement before we've really resolved what this is all about
and that is the frustration I know for beekeepers that new discoveries take so
long to get onto the street and this one might as well make it legally onto the
street but as of now it's it is as they say an illegal drug it's not something
that that should be used you know at this point and I think
we need to be hopeful but be a little bit patient to see how this pans out
and again it's yeah it in human medicines or veterinary medicines it
does take a little while just really let things sort out and make sure they're
they are safe and effective in the in the system they're designed for and and
we do hope in our laboratory and in others USDA and university laboratories
we hope that help streamline that process because it should be fast but it
also needs to be effective and it needs to really resolve we don't want
surprises down the road. Jay you told me about the good and the
bad, there is any ugly yeah I don't let it no longer keeps me up at night quite
as much but there's a yeah I remember back in the day so the the the bad as it
were was that with many heartfelt efforts and skills and talents people
all over the world addressing this I think six months a year in we still
weren't getting those clear-cut answers to what had happened to to our bees and
our beekeepers I think the ugly kicked in and year two as we continued these
trials and continue to struggle and that's when the bounce of
despair would hit and the I would say that in our world
there's you know people's hygiene fell apart and they were in despair and
relationships suffered and no that was just the researchers you know so I also
worry boy the beekeepers who are actually their life's savings their
families and support was dependent on these bees and still is and so I really
at some point when there weren't clear answers to this I think it really did
get a big it such that it some it was ugly and it and it is hard
it's a great beekeeping is a beautiful profession it certainly I'm a hobby
beekeeper it's a beautiful hobby and but if you do it year after year and you you
just have to keep replacing your bees you know it's it's it wears on you after
a while so I think that was happening especially in the case of CCD when there
wasn't an obvious cause to that and nothing that you could really point a
finger at and say oh I'll do this differently next time it's almost I also
think that it probably ugly is the randomness as it as it seemed of it also
some beekeepers would lose 90% of their hives and others would lose non or 10% so
it's almost like you were just gambling and nobody likes to gamble especially
about farming and you know providing for your family so you're going there and
and without much warning might lose a huge fraction of your whole business
your whole industry and that that's gotta be obvious researchers are
buffered from that but that that's gonna be incredibly hard to go through as a
beekeeper. As a scientist to another scientist did we messed up somewhere oh
that's good yeah I don't think it can be a good scientist without acknowledging
your mistakes and your Because I want to hear what do you have to say oh they have some
thoughts that I yeah I think we maybe we could have been a bit more experimental
at the start to think many of us were analyzing samples and trying to build
stories based on our results back in the laboratory or back even in the field but
just sensing colonies and I think while we had the opportunity more while it was
fresh we might have devoted more effort to kind of coordinating as a scientific
group blend with beekeepers to really test some of the going hypotheses at the
start you know in the field or there so I think we some sense with
with the fenomena that kind of snaps on and then snaps off you miss these
opportunities to really do the relevant experiments to try to prove the cause I
think that was one one way and yeah I can you know none of us can really
declare victory yeah I think you know whether it's our own failings or just
bad luck I think you know just there is a certain frustration on all sides that
that this wasn't resolved it better at the time again Jay thank you very much
for your time that's great opportunity. People can
ask questions for you maybe? I'll do my best and as you can see I don't have all
the answers but as always fun to talk with you Humberto I
enjoyed it when we were having lunches when you were working in the lab and I
enjoy it today so I also appreciate what you're doing and trying to address some
hard questions with bee health. Wee need to keep the people together we start to
fight nothing happen over there. and please leave your questions Jay Evans are
gonna try to address all of them but slowly but truly
thank you very much I'll see you guys later and bye-bye
thank you Jay.
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