Now, we come to the tenth point, which in itself does not contain any significant argument.
It is just a reminder for the scholars, because this counter narrative is primarily addressed to them.
So, in conclusion I have pointed out the responsibility of the scholars.
"These are the directives of the Shariah which relate to the state system and have been given along with the warning
that those who do not accept the verdicts of the Book of God after acknowledging it as such,
will be regarded as wrongdoers (zalim), defiant (fasiq) and disbelievers (kafir) on the Day of Judgment" (Quran, 5:44-47).
Such is the importance of these directives in the sight of God.
Such is the importance of these directives in the sight of God. Therefore, the rulers have to abide by these directives and
Therefore, the rulers have to abide by these directives and
the scholars have the responsibility of reminding them to follow these directives.
They are also responsible for developing public consciousness about these directives,
because this is the necessary outcome of our being Muslims.
"However, if the rulers of the Muslims, in spite of this warning are guilty of some negligence in this regard or become rebellious. . ."
In most countries, they are mostly guilty of negligence whereas their rebelliousness was displayed in case of Turkey.
Both examples are available.
"However, if the rulers of the Muslims, in spite of this warning are guilty of some negligence in this regard or become rebellious,
then the only responsibility of religious scholars is to warn them of its consequences in this world and the hereafter.
With wisdom and kindly exhortation, they should call them to mend their ways, face their questions..."
It is possible that the rulers do not understand a directive, which is generally the case.
This is one aspect that makes the rulers guilty of negligence.
"… dispel their doubts and demonstrate logically to them the reasons that God has given them His Shariah."
Right now it is secularism which doesn't accept the validity of the Shariah.
Religion can be acceptable within secularism but this part of religion is rejected.
Scholars should explain to them its relevance with the collective life of Muslims.
They should also elucidate to them the basis of its directives and the difficulty
which a person living in modernity faces in understanding it.
These questions have to be addressed.
They should adopt such an intellectual tone and style to explain and
clarify this so that its underlying wisdom and objective becomes evident to them;
and their hearts and minds are able to accept it with full satisfaction and they become resolute in following it.
"The Quran has stated that the real status of religious scholars is to
invite people to the truth and warn them about any deviation from it."
Here also, I have had to add nothing from my side.
That Aayah is present in the Qur'an, which already determines the position and responsibility of the scholars.
You can find this discussion in detail in the chapter on 'Preaching' in my book Meezaan.
"The Quran has stated that the real status of religious scholars is to invite people to the truth and
warn them about any deviation from it.
They have not been made the enforcing authorities of religion.
God does not want them to force people to follow Islam so that they should organize their followers
in groups that ask people at gun point to follow the Shariah."
They haven't been given this responsibility and neither do they have this right.
The Almighty has decreed that they should invite people to the truth and warn them about any deviation from it.
I have explained the responsibilities that they are supposed to fulfill.
This concludes the ten points of my article as well my counter narrative.
You may now ask any questions.
Question: While explaining the traditional narrative, you presented examples of Umar(ra),
on which these people base their arguments. How do you explain those incidents in your counter narrative?
Ghamidi: The same way that I explained for the scholars, i.e. "tableegh and talqeen" (preaching and exhortation).
I've stated that the government can establish a department of Amr bil Maroof and Nahi Anil Munkar,
which will perform the same task of "Tableegh and Talqeen".
Umar(ra) was governing a tribal society, in which a ruler is like a father.
And in many cases, he behaves in a way unique to that society, which may not be suitable for our time.
I had given you an example from my own village life.
Once, my younger sister went out in the street without a scarf.
An elderly man from another tribe saw her without the scarf and slapped her on the face before sending her back home.
You can imagine what would happen if such a thing is done today.
My mother came out of the door and told the person to slap her again.
So, this was the society and culture back then.
We do not derive religion from such incidents.
I have pointed out many times that a fundamental mistake that has been committed in understanding our religion
was in making individual reported cases the source of our religion.
Cases are always applications of some principles.
One always needs to observe the environment, the place, the context in which a matter has taken place.
The act of the elderly tribal man does not create any nuisance in the society of that time.
But today such an act is unthinkable.
Many things are merely related to specific societal and cultural contexts.
Therefore, I have stated that the way of exhortation, persuasion and preaching may be adopted.
The Friday sermon is meant for the same purpose.
Umar(ra) pointed out something in a similar way.
We can also do this.
Question: You've stated that a Muslim government can take steps to apply the law only when the rights of a person are usurped.
Does it not include the usurpation of the rights of God? Are the rights of God not usurped by committing Shirk, Kufr and Apostasy?
Ghamidi: I've already discussed this question in detail that the Almighty deals with any violation of His rights himself.
He hasn't delegated this authority to anyone else.
If He has then it must be proved through the Qur'an or in the words of the Holy Prophet (pbuh).
This is because this authority rests with God alone.
And the authority to prevent the usurpation of rights or the excesses against the life,
property and honor of people has been given to the government only because the victim is oppressed and helpless.
But God is the Sovereign of the entire cosmos and not in need of anyone's help.
He settles His matters Himself.
Question: But isn't the punishment of theft or adultery also given because the rights of God are violated? How then do we get the authority here?
Ghamidi: No, in this case a person has disobeyed God after having entered into a covenant with Him.
Subsequently, God commanded us to carry out the punishment on His behalf.
Similar directives are given by the Almighty in other cases and we are required to act accordingly.
In executing these punishments our role is merely instrumental.
It is almost similar to the scenario where the Almighty directed the companions of the Prophet (sws)
to execute punishment after Itmaam al-Hujjah.
The basic principle here is that you can only execute those punishments or divine directives for which you have been authorized by God.
If God has directed us to go and implement the entire Shariah on the people, then the discussion would be over.
To argue against it would be antithetical to one's faith.
Question: You said that Zakaah would be collected by the government.
If the government relinquishes the right to collect Zakaah,
shouldn't Zakaah be suspended, because the objective of Zakaah is lost? So, why should I pay Zakaah?
Ghamidi: No, it is not like that. This is the difference between the Word of God and the word of man.
Zakaah is God's right. He says He demands it for the society.
He says that since you are my Servants, you must give me Zakaah.
Now, obviously we cannot give directly to God.
He has pointed out the place where he should give.
Therefore, it is still the right only of God.
If these people are not willing to take it, it won't annul God's right.
We have to dispense our Zakaah at an individual level.
That is why Zakaah is always obligatory.
If you pay attention, I have not discussed this law in the 'Political Shariah'.
I have only discussed that aspect of Zakaah, which is related to governance.
Actually, I have discussed Zakaah in the chapter on worship rituals.
I have stated that in the ancient times, people used to offer various items to their deities and place food before them.
Did those deities consume the food? Similarly, does God take the wealth? No.
The Almighty has said that this Zakaah has to be placed before Him, but then is to be given to such and such people.
So, this is where the right of the government is established from.
I have to take out my Zakaah in all situations.
If the government doesn't collect it, it will not terminate the obligation on my part. I still have to pay it on my part.
Question: You have said that no one has the right to interfere in matters of the directives given to an individual.
But when a Muslim commits a crime, the court will have to see whether he is a Muslim or not; whether he is firm on Islam.
In this way, it will interfere in personal matters and try to see whether
whether the activities of this person are in accordance with Islam or not.
So, is not the government interfering in personal matters here?
Ghamidi: Governments interfere in all matters when a person commits a crime.
This principle is accepted everywhere that if someone has committed a murder,
then the state authorities shall have appropriate jurisdiction over them.
This jurisdiction starts when another person's rights are usurped or his life,
wealth or honor is threatened. Now the integrity of the accused will be called into question.
The court will see the conditions in which the crime was committed.
And this is the reason that anywhere in the world,
no court of law has just one punishment for a crime.
For example, the punishment of theft ranges from three years to seven years imprisonment.
This is because the context is taken into consideration.
So, the court in a Muslim society has acquired this right because
the offender has committed a crime and has thus usurped the rights of a person;
and in fact, transgressed against someone else's wealth.
So, he is a criminal and not an ordinary citizen.
A person loses some of his rights when he commits a crime, in which case even the US government will put him in prison.
Question: You have said that one of the directives given to a Muslim government is that
they have to spread the message of Islam in the world.
If they fulfill this responsibility and enter into non-Muslim countries,
then will those countries also have the right to preach their Kufr and Shirk in the Muslim countries?
Ghamidi: Certainly; every person has the right to express their views. This is what dialogue means.
They too have this right just as we do. How can we stop them?
The same principle will apply here; we need to have some legitimate authority or directive to stop them from preaching.
(There is none).
So, they will do to Muslim countries and say whatever they have to say, but with respect and in a civilized way.
In other words, until someone is not calling people towards aggression and threatening the life,
wealth and honor of people or talking about usurping their rights, we cannot stop them.
Question: You said that the government will collect the Zakaah and in return,
demand the Muslims to offer their Salah (prayers).
How will they make this demand? What will be its form?
Will the Imam keep a record in the Masjid to know who has offered the prayers and who has not?
Ghamidi: No, there is no need to do such a thing in such matters.
In fact, I would suggest that they refrain from this in the present times.
They should abstain from it. This depends on the times we are living in.
Nevertheless, legally they have this right.
It is just like the parents have a right to discipline their child.
But in our times, we would advise the parents to take precautions.
So, I will not advise governments to do this. But when someone comes with a demand,
we shall only see if the apparent form is in good order.
So the simple question, "Do you offer prayers?" shall suffice.
Question: Is the directive of Qisaas (retribution) given to an individual or the collectivity?
Ghamidi: I have already discussed this.
The obligation has been placed on the society to seek retribution for a person who was wronged.
The Qur'an says, "O you who believe! Qisaas is decreed for you of those [among you] who are killed…" (2:178).
Question: One more question related to this is about killing non-combatants.
A Muslim country accepts that a foreign country has attacked it and intentionally killed non-combatants.
Doesn't it become obligatory on them to seek Qisaas of these non-combatants?
Ghamidi: Qisaas is taken from the person who has killed.
You can read the Quranic Aayah where Qisaas is made obligatory.
The next part of this verse reads, "…if the murderer is a free-man, then the same free-man should be killed in his place and if he is a slave,
then the same slave should be killed in his place and if the murderer is a woman, then the same woman shall be killed in her place." (2:178).
If someone has killed your son, you cannot kill his father in retribution.
It can't happen this way.
Qisaas is taken from the person guilty of the crime and not from some innocent person.
Questioner: So if a bombardier destroys a hospital and kills all the patients inside,
so how can we find the one bombardier who has killed people?
Ghamidi: You will have to find that person.
Or the government that has authorized him.
The government institutions will be included among the combatants and considered 'at war'.
If a fight starts between two countries, they are both 'at war'.
The global law also permits you to act against them.
For example, you make the ships to stop in the Arabian Gulf. You put restrictions on free movement.
But all this is done to a state, because the state is the combatant; it has entered into the battlefield.
Questioner: How does one see collateral damage?
Ghamidi: The Civilians, the common people are non-combatants and as such cannot be killed.
We can never say that since they have killed our common people and bombed the non-combatants,
therefore, we too will kill civilians and bomb them.
On the contrary, we are obliged to protect the common people and ensure that they are not harmed.
The issue of collateral damage is different.
It is accepted that sometimes the common people are killed inadvertently in an attack on a military establishment,
due to the location of the establishment in a civilian area.
Recently, the United States made this mistake and had to tender an apology at the highest level.
Similarly, the world is still ashamed of the action taken at Hiroshima and Nagasaki to stop Japan.
Question: Your counter narrative has generated a number of responses at the national level; almost a hundred.
You must have seen them.
Did you feel about any point that perhaps you need to revisit your own conclusions, or think about them again?
And can we expect any progress on this counter narrative from the scholars?
Can there be a discussion between you and the scholars?
Ghamidi: You seem to have counted the responses!
I haven't counted them but there is no doubt that it generated a large number of responses.
But from the top to the bottom, from the most profound scholar to the average writer,
there is not one article or one paragraph in which my points were criticized after correctly understanding them.
Let us put the veracity of the positions aside for a moment;
the first requirement of critique is that you at least understand the point made by the writer.
Then we can entertain the critiques as well.
For example, a possible critique would be: in the first point I say the Qur'an hasn't obligated us to say, x;
all you need to do is to show the passage where the Qur'an has obligated us to do just that x.
Similarly, in the second point I've said y and you show that it is not right, because the Almighty has given a different directive z.
From these hundred or so responses, please show me one response where the proper method of critique has been displayed.
They have repeated the same points that I've discussed here.
So far, this is the tragedy with me.
I still wait for the critique that actually addresses my position.
The question of good or bad is secondary.
All the critiques until now are besides the point from my actual position.
Question: If a non-Muslim country issues a Friday sermon for all the Mosques in its territory where
Jumu'ah is offered and insists that this sermon be read in them all,
will it be a correct move or will it be considered interference in our religion?
And will this be the same Jumu'ah that we are asked to establish?
Ghamidi: Jumu'ah has been declared a responsibility of the Muslim government.
Principally, Jumu'ah isn't supposed to be offered in non-Muslim countries.
If a non-Muslim government asks Muslims to stop the Jumu'ah prayer on the basis that
they are not supposed to offer Jumu'ah in a non-Muslim country, they can say so.
But, they obviously cannot give the Jumu'ah sermon, as non-Muslims.
Ideally, it should not have happened. It is a huge mistake, which has caused great chaos,
even in our own Muslim countries.
The same sectarianism, mutual rivalry and separate mosques were exported to the non-Muslim countries as well.
This was a very ugly first-introduction of Islam for people.
The Mosques should've been built for offering the five daily prayers and for organizing gatherings on other days.
But, the matter of Jumu'ah is related to the Muslim government.
There could've been one viable alternative. Muslims should've first organized their community in these countries.
Subsequently, they could've done an Ijtihad (creative reasoning based on prevalent principles)
that their organized community be run by the community leaders, if they want to establish the Jumu'ah prayers.
But, the Deobandis established their own Jumu'ah and the Barelvis established their own, resulting in chaos.
Question: What is the best use of Zakaah?
Everyone spends his Zakaah according to his own understanding, e.g. some build a Masjid and some help the needy.
What is its best use according to you?
Ghamidi: If the government collects the Zakaah, then our role is over.
If they don't collect and I have to spend it on my own, there is a very simple principle to consider.
Your near-relatives, colleagues and neighbors deserve your help first.
It is your responsibility to fulfill their needs.
If anything remains after assisting them, you can help in the cause of religion also, or in some other noble work.
But, this sequence cannot be bypassed.
Question: The points you've stated in your counter narrative have been discussed by you in your book.
Now you've stated it at the national level.
How should Muslims see this in the future, particularly in the context of the challenges faced by the Muslim youth today?
How can it influence the introduction of Islam for the non-Muslims at the global level?
Ghamidi: Let us take the Muslims first.
Every Muslim should see their religion solely from the perspective of their religion.
That is why I have not mentioned any arguments in my counter narrative outside the religious sources.
I invite young Muslims to compare my counter narrative with the narrative of our scholars on the basis of
their respective reasoning and evaluate my critique of the traditional narrative.
They should then accept what they see as the correct narrative of Islam.
In my humble view, if young Muslims accept my narrative,
it will forge unity in the world and put an end to the existing chaos.
It will also open up new opportunities of serving Islam in this world.
Our youngsters usually hand themselves over to the various religious movements.
Mind you, they are extraordinary people [the common people never do this].
It indicates that they are extraordinary people in terms of intellect and thought.
They have great courage and determination.
People like this are the treasure of any nation and in the words of Jesus (pbuh), "They are the salt of this earth".
If these young people involve themselves in positive activities as part of their national service,
they can bring about a great revolution.
Then knowledge, morality and sharing the message of Islam will become their concern.
They will go out into the world to share the Word of God.
The methods they have adopted today are futile. They are fighting a lost battle.
Their real concern should be the same that I have stated according to my very limited knowledge.
People have not realized its value and its potential yet.
As and when they understand it, ponder over it, and see the work we have done, they will realize that our work
is actually an answer to the question raised by Allama Iqbal in his treatise The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam.
Our religious thought needs reconstruction today. What will be the basis of this reconstruction or reformation?
Religion should be put forward in its pure form.
That is why, in the Epilogue of my book Meezaan, I stated that
"The content of religion has been presented here in its pristine form and has been cleansed from fiqh and kalam,
philosophy and tasawwuf." This is the service I have tried to render.
I urge you to analyze it on the basis of evidence and also encourage others to do the same.
I also respect the proponents of secularism in our countries, because they too are striving with sincerity.
But the objective that they want to achieve, can most certainly be achieved through this narrative.
The rest of the world should also try to understand it.
Let them also realize that if they want to promote something in the Muslim world,
even if it is for their own interests, they can benefit from the right conceptions.
And when they will see it, read it, understand it from this perspective,
I am sure they will gain a better understanding of our religion and
in turn God's religion will take hold of their hearts and minds.
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