Free From Stutter Success Stories is a series of interviews with people who reached freedom
from stuttering or are on their way there. Freedom from stuttering it's when stuttering
is not holding you back in your life. It can be either achieving fluency, a real
progress on that path or it can be reaching your goals and making
a difference despite stuttering. So we're going to press for specifics
how are they doing that, what can we learn from them and what can we apply in our life?
Today we'll talk with Danette Fitzgerald. She's New Haven NSA (National Stuttering
Association) chapter co-leader. And the topic we'll get to in the interview will be confidence.
I often hear people ask like maybe I should get just some more confidence and then it
will improve my fluency? Well, confidence is something I lack myself, that's a very interesting
topic. So, let's try to learn something new!
Hello, Danette!
Hello!
We met at the National Stuttering Association Conference a year ago. I just want to mention
how it happened. So, we had kind of an assignment to go and ask people at the mall I think some
questions about stuttering and then come back to the group and share our findings. I don't
quite remember what the questions were. Do you remember any of those questions?
I think it was like free form, you could ask whatever you want and some suggestions were,
if you want to ask people if they know about stuttering, if they know any people that stutter,
what are they thinking about it. You could just voluntary stutter and ask
about anything. I remember just one thing from this exercise
which was that people don't know much about stuttering, that's actually what I remember
from that exercise. Basically, what I wanted to ask...
I remember that people who volunteered to go were
like people I think with kind of mild stutter so how do you say, was that a challenge for
you to go and ask people? Yeah, on the one hand it was a challenge to
go talk to strangers about that and on the other hand it was a little bit easier because
I was also with other people who stuttered, support group with me; it made it a little
bit easier. Was that the first conference for you? Or
it was like, how many times did you participate before?
I've been going to the conferences since 2010 so that was my 7th conference I think.
Did you participate in such exercise before or was that the first time?
That was the second time because they ran that workshop once before. The idea before
that, when they introduced that workshop it was little different because we went out on the
streets and we went into stores and we voluntary stuttered and just ask questions on the stores
about buying things rather than talking about stuttering.
Okay, so when you did it the first time, how did it happen that you volunteered like what
was the process going in your mind? I looked at the list of all the workshops going
on and I thought that sounded interesting and different.
I wanted to voluntary stutter more but I was always
scared to do it and I don't do it as much as I should, so I thought that was a good opportunity to
do it with people supporting me, around me to see the public, people's reactions if I
stuttered more severely than I usually do. Got it. So the first time the exercise was
about voluntarily stuttering and the second time you just got into this...and yeah it
was...got it, got it got it. Can you share just a bit your stuttering journey like how
did it start and what were like the ups and downs, maybe I don't know or like turning
points in that journey? Okay. I stutter since I was a kid but I don't
really remember. I remember labeling myself as a stutterer as a kid but I don't remember
stuttering. And it wasn't until after college that it started to affect me more and I was
a covert stutterer which I didn't know until I discovered the NSA and learned that term.
I'm pretty mild stutterer and I can hide it by switching out words, and other
technique to hide it. Once I was out of college and working, I started becoming more conscious
of it or becoming more embarrassed by anyone who turned down opportunities at work so that's
when I first sought out speech therapy and that really helped. One of the things that
helped me most about speech therapy was learning how you make all the sounds and letters
with your mouth because I would get into a block at a certain letter
and I wouldn't be able to get any sound out and I would panic. I wouldn't know
what to do so knowing like this is how your mouth and your tongue like makes this letter
and this is how you make that letter if you can't get it out. That
was the most helpful to me. And then I say at the same time and that's the first time
I've ever met somebody else who's stuttered that like 28 and that was I opened to other
people who stuttered and hearing that people had the same experiences as me like being
scared to talk on the phone or going around the table and introducing yourself and things
like that. And then eventually after a couple of years I became a chapter leader in the
National Stuttering Association. I run the Chapter and I go to the conferences
every year. So, you're still the chapter leader? Sorry
I missed that.
Oh, yeah. So I moved a couple times, I was the chapter leader in Boston and then I moved
to New Haven, Connecticut and now I'm a chapter leader in New Haven.
Got it, got it. Okay, got it. How do you see the future with stuttering like what is your
approach now, what is your attitude, how do you feel about stuttering now?
I feel much differently now than I did before I ever discovered the NSA or went to speech therapy.
I thought it was something you had to hide and you couldn't let that out; you couldn't speak
in that way. Now, like seeing all people who stutter and you stutter differently than me,
I see that it's okay and you can have all these different careers and different lives
and also stutter at the same time.
And that it's just a difference like any other difference,
like black hair or blonde hair, or height or any difference and that I've learned to advertise
my stutter. Sometimes it's going to make me feel
like I need to tell the other person that I stutter. Yeah, that's how I feel.
Okay, you mentioned voluntarily stuttering and you talked about this openness, if I say
that can you imagine, you get to a party and all new people there and they don't know that
you stutter, how would you behave, like what is your behavior right now? I understand you
stay that you're not hiding it anymore but what's going on in your mind again and how
would you behave usually in this or how would you behave in such situation?
I've used techniques a lot through speech therapy so I can manage if I do have a block, I can
manage to get the word out in some way without feeling embarrassed about it or something,
so most of the time I would probably just speak and use the techniques if I need to.
And if I do have an embarrassing stutter where I block and I feel like people are wondering
what's going on or people are laughing or something or they are uncomfortable then I
tell the person that I stutter. Like sometimes, I will stutter on my name and it will take
an extra second to get out my name and someone will make a joke like, "Oh did you forget
your name?" and then at that point I tell someone that I stutter because I was sitting
there uncomfortable that they had to make a joke. So I really only advertise it to someone
if it comes up like if I have a block. Got it. Okay and you mentioned some techniques
that you can use from the speech therapy; can you name just maybe one or two? You say
it gives some control, can you name just anything? Yeah, so like easy onset and prolongation
which are kind of the same thing have really helped like if I have a trouble on a word
that starts with letter K like cat and I can't get the K out, to know like what's happening
in my mouth or whatever and with my tongue and like know how to loosen that up and kind
of k-a-t like to loosen up on that letter and prolong it. Actually, it makes more sense to
do it with a P, if I'm like puh and I can't get the P out, so loosen it and go "p", just to
loosen things and prolong. Got it. So you kind of reduced the first consonant
and make the... this is the "easy onset" you say?
Yeah. When you kind of reduced the consonant making
it like less or yeah, got it not concentrating on the first consonant. Okay, got it. If I
ask you about your career choice and your work, do you have to speak much at work like
is speaking much involved in your work? And do you see like any connection between like
how you chose your career path with stuttering, do you see any connection there?
So there was no connection to how I chose my career path with stuttering. I didn't let
it hold me back and choose a different career than I really wanted because I stuttered. I did
what I wanted to do. I'm an engineer and in my normal day to day work, I speak with my
team, like people that I work with and I speak more like informally with people that I'm
close to that sit near me that I'm working on projects with and then I branch out if
I need to speak with different people about different things. I don't really need to make
many presentations in work, I have had different jobs and sometimes that means more or less.
I actually did just a few months ago I made my first presentation at a conference which
was a big deal for me because when I first sought out speech therapy I saw myself rejecting
opportunity to do things like that because I'll be too nervous and I don't think I can
do it well to go to a conference and make a presentation but it's good that I finally
got the opportunity to do that and I jumped at the chance and I gave a presentation to
more than a hundred people. My personal experience is that at work like
I struggled most because we kind of tend to satisfy our boss, our colleagues like to be
our best selves so maybe we're putting like more pressure on ourselves, how do you deal
with that? Do people at work know that you stutter? Are you open about it or how do you
deal with that? Now, I'm open about it. I've had three different
jobs so at my first job I was still young and I was not that open about it. When I first
discovered the NSA and I was going to my first conference I told a few people that came
up and the more that I've been with the NSA, the more I've gotten comfortable with telling
people so now at this job...and the conferences are great opportunity to bring it up because
people know you're going on vacation and it's a holiday in the US also so people like, oh,
what you're doing for the holiday? Where you're going on vacation? So you can
just say, "Oh I'm going to the city" and not tell them it's the conference or if you want
to you can tell them that it's the conference and talk about it. I use that opportunity
to tell more people and then people can ask questions if they want to and I find some
people are very curious about it and ask a lot of questions. Some people you just tell
them and that's it and then they don't care. Now, I don't talk about it all the time but
I tell people at the lunch table and stuff,
I know people know so that makes me more comfortable
if I do stutter in front of them and know that they're not wondering what's wrong.
Got it. Another question, I want to ask about kind of being active. I've had several interviews
and I found that people say like either stuttering is like pressing on you or you begin to
be more active like taking more challenges and doing more like
volunteering for this and that and stuttering moves back, how do you feel
about it? Do you agree and what happens with you, do you need to keep up with being kind
of active and volunteering and challenging yourself to do that or like new stuff, how
do you see that...I won't say fight with stuttering because we're not fighting with it but still
how do you feel about it? Being active with volunteering and stuff you
mean like with your stuttering you need to like or you mean in general, your life?
Actually, both I think. That's the question. I mean because you said that sometimes you
need to make a presentation. If you have a choice like to make a presentation or to volunteer
to make a presentation or not, how do you approach that?
Oh yeah, I've never thought about that if keeping active keeps that stuttering down or not.
That's an interesting question. I never thought about that.
Okay, because usually you know what happens with stuttering, you stutter and you kind
of focus on it. The more you focus on it, the more you stutter and this is like the
cycle that often times people just don't want to talk to anybody, they want not do anything
so for you it comes out kind of easy, that's how you deal with that circle.
Yes, yes so maybe if you were as active in the world and you'd be more focused on yourself,
you might stutter more but when you're out in the world and doing things and I guess
focused on other people and as you get older you learn that everyone is...because you think
like any flaw that you have that everybody sees it and everybody is concentrating on
it but when you get older you learn that people aren't focused on you, they're focused on
themselves and they don't see your flaws as much as you see your own flaws and as much
as you focus on it. So the more you are like with people in doing things and taking chances
and taking opportunities, I guess you're less focused on general and I guess it will stand
a little bit. But if we try to dig deeper what makes you...This
is a great conclusion that we should not focus on it too much but it doesn't happen usually
automatically so why do you think that happens for you that you're not focusing on that too
much? And was that the case all the time like usually at school people struggle because
this is the time when it's so important to...how other people view you, your friends, your
class so usually that's the...usually people say this is the kind of worst period when
they're putting a lot of pressure on them and stress, what do you say? Did you have
like that period in your life or you… Yes. No matter what I was always pretty confident
in myself even when I was growing up and stuff. I was in speech therapy last year, I went
through a cognitive behavior therapy which did help me learn a little more about how
I feel towards things and what I expect in situations and how I really feel and the worst
is not going to happen and it's not as bad as I thought it was, that had helped change
my view of things I guess. What's weird with me is that I remember when I was young and
in school and labeled myself as a stutterer but I don't really have...I remember like
if you're reading in class and everyone had to read paragraph, you look ahead to which
paragraph you have to read and see what words and letters where in that paragraph for you
to be nervous about but I don't have really many vivid memories of stuttering or being
laughed out or being self-conscious about it. I remember being nervous about like in
those reading situations or introducing yourself sometimes but I don't really have the severe
memories that a lot of people who stutter have of like being really self-conscious about
it or being laughed at which is surprising. Got it. Often times people say I need more
confidence; if I have more confidence then I will stutter less. Yeah, you mentioned the
confidence and the other I don't know cognitive; this is more like a psychological stuff, right?
So do you feel that much of that stuttering problem people are facing is the psychological
piece?
Yeah, it was called cognitive behavior therapy. I think a lot of stuttering is the psychological
piece especially with the covert stuttering. Have you heard of the iceberg analogy of stuttering?
Yeah, actually yeah. Okay.
Still with the overt stutterer or someone who stutters more severely there's more stuttering
above the surface that other people can see. They still have the feelings below the surface
in the iceberg. With the covert stutterer there may not be much above the surface, they
may appear normal to other people like people told me in the past, "Oh you don't stutter"
and I'm like "No, yes I do" but there's so little in the surface that other people
don't notice but they are still the same amount underneath the surface that you still have
the same fears, anxieties and feelings about it; especially for a covert stutterer it's
more about the anticipation of speaking and the nervousness before you speak and the nervousness
while you're speaking than the fact that you're physically going duh, duh, duh or blocking
I totally agree. Okay, if we kind of eliminate
or reduce that fear of being revealed, we kind of remove a lot of stress and anxiety
that's the idea.
Yeah. So for a covert stutterer a lot of is in like desensitization, so desensitize yourself
to people's reactions because most of what is in your head is like what people's reactions
are going to be like, "Oh I stutter then this person is going to react like this" and it's
all imagined or anticipated. It's like you're imagining what people are going to do or going
to think. So that's why voluntary stuttering helps because if you actually go and stutter, you
do what you nervous about, you do what you are scared of and like see how people react
and then you learn, "Oh it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. People don't
react as bad as I thought that they're going to. And that makes you realize, i don't have
to be so nervous if I let out a stutter because if I let out a stutter then that's not a big
deal because people don't react as poorly as I expect.
Got it. So if to put like this cognitive behavior thing in simple words, is it mostly about
like feeling that everything okay with me and being kind of open about whatever or however
you might look or appear or you would put it in a different way somehow? Like what was
the major thing for you out of that cognitive behavioral thing?
All the stuff that you imagine, you kind of like list the things you are scared of happening
and then say, well if that happens what's the worst that's going to happen? You go like;
I'm scared of stuttering at work. Why are you scared of stuttering at work? Because
I feel like you know my boss will know I stutter and he'll think I'm incompetent and I'll get fired and
I lose my job. Like the worst thing that you could imagine that can come from it, and kind of teach
yourself like, that's ridiculous, that's not going to happen. Your boss knows you stutter
like no big deal and nothing actually going to happen, like nothing that bad is
going to happen. Stop coming up with these ridiculous situations or like if you call
someone on the phone and you have always imagined what's going to happen but that's not really
going to happen. Okay. And maybe even if you get fired this
is still not the end of the world. Great! It's not the end of the world, that's
a good way to put it. Maybe sometimes it means a good thing. Like for many people
say that they got so successful because they were fired basically one day so...
Okay. One more thing I wanted to ask,
if I say public speaking,
what do you feel about it or how do you feel about it?
Well, right now I feel more confident about it because I just went to this work conference
in June and gave this presentation and it was actually fun. It was like I got over like
this thing that I never did before and I'm like and it was exciting and I'd like to do
it again. So on the one hand, before I do it, I'm nervous and stuff like I was a maid
of honor in my friend's wedding and I had to give a speech at the wedding, I was very
nervous about that. When I did that I got through it and it went great. This work conference,
I got through that and it went great, so the more I do it, the more I learn. It is easy
and fun. If I practice enough, I'll stutter less because if I don't know what I'm going
to say that's when I stutter more but if I practice a lot and I know what I'm planning
to say and I know the words and I practice the words that I plan to say, as long I have
time to practice I feel confident about it. And I probably even feel more confident than
some people who don't stutter because everyone is nervous about public speaking, even people
who don't stutter. And there are people who don't stutter who would never do public
speaking because they're too scared of it, so I'm actually probably more confident
than they do. Right, right. Okay and with this confidence
thing like, what would you advise or what would you tell a person who is saying that
I lack confidence, I just don't know where to start with this confidence thing, I just
lack it and that's it, I just don't know where to get it. And you know confidence it sounds
like something we can go and buy or like a pill we need to swallow, I'm more confident.
Where would I start with my confidence? That's a tough one because I feel like
somewhat it's like engrained
because I always been confident my whole life and people have told me like
more than the average person. I don't have the experience much with like
not being confident and then gaining more confidence, I mean I guess on a small scale.
It's just kind of knowing yourself and liking yourself and being comfortable with yourself,
like if you're happy with yourself when you're alone with yourself like you have to be happy
with yourself like that like I'm very happy with myself when I'm alone, I mean my alone
time. And to just know that you're a good person and you like yourself as a person but
I don't how to get there, I don't have it... Got it, got it. This is a good point, so confidence
starts with kind of self-worth and self-esteem, how you feel about yourself.
Yeah.
So if you kind of feel fine about yourself then probably your confidence...
Yeah, that's like to let other people's reactions roll off your back because like do not give
too much credit to other people's reactions to you; to be like I know I love myself, I
know I'm a good person and if this person over here doesn't like me or looks down on me then
I don't really care about that person, like I don't really care what they think of me.
Like that was one thing cognitive behavior therapy. To not give too much credit to what other
people think like why would you be nervous about stuttering in front of other people
because you're scared of what they think of you. But if you're like, I don't care what
they think of me then you won't be nervous about stuttering. Did you not nervous about
stuttering when your home alone talking to your pet and so it's only because you're
talking to other people and you're sacred what they think but if you say I don't care
what they think then you can gain more confidence.
Yeah! And you said a very interesting thing about being kind or something or being
a good person, it sound to me like this and I think this is a very good idea I mean when
we measure ourselves in terms of our skills and qualities, what we can do or cannot then
we kind of put a lot of pressure and anxiety maybe when we start measuring ourselves from
the point of view how good I am, I'm just a good person and that's it. I don't need
any special skills...
Yeah.
Maybe looking at the core of yourself like are you a good person maybe a good way to lift
your self-esteem because you eliminate those skill sets, hierarchies, the steps you need
to go so everything goes away. You just have the nutshell of you and that's it.
Yeah. That's good way to put it.
Yeah! Great. Okay, going back to the confidence thing when I asked you about this interview,
this is a new thing. Maybe you've done interviews in your life or maybe you haven't but this
particular thing is a new one, how did you like did it take a long time to process that
and to kind of agree to that or was it like as you say very natural for you or did you
go through some struggles about this?
Well, I've been interviewed once before about stuttering. I don't know if you met Daniele
Rossi at the conference?
Yeah, we haven't I think spoke but I understand who you're talking about.
So he does like an interview thing like a podcast.
Right he has a podcast, right.
He had been asking me for years to be on his podcast and at first I was like no, no, no and
then finally after a few years I gave in and I said Okay, I'll do it. And aside from that
I think last year and so when you asked it was like a similar thing and I was okay, I've
done this before and I think I was kind of flattered with what you said and you said
you have the courage and I was kind of flattered so that helped. So yeah, because I had done
it before, I have some time to do it. So I didn't think about it that much, I said yes
pretty soon.
So a big conclusion about it is that the confidence grows when you do it the second time and the
third and the fourth, the confidence grows. So you are doing it the second time same as
with the exercise at the conference you did the second time and every next time probably
you have more confidence because you haven't died because of the previous one. Maybe you
are even had a good experience out of that. Got it. So, may be its important just
to start and see how it goes. I See.
Yes, just jump in and yeah. Got it. So, basically just a couple of questions
I want to ask. Regarding you as a person who stutters, do you see like a goal in front of you or
you just don't see yourself much like you don't see stuttering as big part of your life
actually. So, do you want to do anything else with your stuttering or it's just something
that doesn't, it just not stopping you back in your life so you don't think much about
it? Or do you have like perspective, do you have any way to go like usually people say
I want to improve or I want to like do something. So do you see that something in front of you
or it's not holding me back and that's it.
So when I first sought out stuttering therapy when I didn't know anything yet, I guess my
goal was like I thought I have to get rid of it but now like I've learned that's not
goal anymore. I pretty much reached the goal I guess which I didn't realize that at the
beginning was my goal but just to become confident what's important is not the stuttering but
communication and it doesn't matter how you say something but as long as you get your
point across and you communicate what's in your head to somebody else then that's what
matters even if you stutter horribly on it, you don't want to hold back and use different
words and say something different from what you mean because you're scared of stuttering
on those words so you use a different word instead. I've pretty much reached that. You don't
hold back if you want to say something and then you're like, I'm not going to say it
at all because I'm going to stutter on it, then you didn't communicate what you wanted
to. So communication I guess is a big goal. I'm pretty much there. There's always
going to be like sometimes when you might like switch out a word, or
say not what you want to say because it's a situation or person that you're a little
more nervous with, so there's always like a little steps at the end 'til I just get
a little better at always saying what you want to say and always speaking up when you
want to and not letting any situation or any person make you embarrassed or make you nervous
or making you anxious. So, I'm pretty much at my goal but just a little more situations
that I want to work on.
Got it. And maybe the last question. I often hear like people see that stuttering as a
monster like holding them again back in their life, what is freedom from stuttering for
you? Like do you feel free from the limitations that it can bring?
Probably like 95%, yeah. Like when I first sought out speech therapy when I didn't know
anything at all, I was like and said to myself, "Oh I can't do that because I stutter. I can't
do my presentation because I stutter or I can't meet that new person
and introduce myself because I stutter
or I guess I can't do things. I don't say that anymore. Sometimes I'm like, "Oh
I want to say this word or I want to say this is this way and when I say it in different
way because I'm nervous of stuttering in front of that person so I'm not 100% free but that's
only a little bit of time so probably I'm at 95% free from being held back from my stutter.
Okay, maybe one more question. Sorry for taking your time.
That's okay.
I also hear that people say and you said that speech therapy helps you in some ways, so
would you kind of advise people to go and get speech therapy or what would be your advice?
I think it's different for every person and I think everyone should at least try it. They
don't have to commit to it but try it. And every speech therapist is different like I
moved to different cities so I've had different speech therapist, some are better for me,
some are not. I would say everyone like to try it and see it helps for them and if not
that's okay too if they want to stop going. I mean it depends on what's important to each
person is being authentic...it works for me, I guess I may have some still authentic and
I can like not panic in a block now and I can know that I have a way of getting that
word out. But this is different for different people. Everyone should try, I mean in general
not even without stuttering people should always try things and they can decide if it
works for them or not. Always give it a chance.
Got it. Because in your stuttering puzzle I see there you name two pieces, one is speech
therapy which helped you really somehow not panic as you say because you kind of understand
it better. And the second piece is this confidence and self-esteem, like seeing yourself as being
okay just as a person. So probably both pieces are important for you, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah I think that's a good way to put it.
But the self-esteem and how you view yourself, you would probably value more as it sounds,
would you say or...
Yeah, yeah I value the self-esteem and confidence a little more than the techniques and knowledge,
yeah.
Got it, got it. Okay, this was a beautiful interview. Thank you so much! I hope to see
you next time at the conference. Did you go to Dallas this year?
Yeah, I went to Dallas.
You did, you did. I didn't but I'm sure I'll go to the next one, to Chicago, so hope to
see you there.
Yeah, thank you. These are very good questions because I really didn't know what to expect
or what would we really talk about. I think you have really insightful questions and really
prepared so I think yeah you went well. So, you're thinking of going to the US one next year
in Chicago?
Sure I will. I will for sure. If you got free from stuttering or improved
your speaking or just have something to share, let me know, tell us about your experience,
become part of this project. So do you think it's possible to overcome stuttering? Is it
worth trying? Leave a comment. For more videos subscribe to this Youtube channel, head over
to freefromstutter.com blog, join Free From Stutter Facebook group, and I'll see you in
next video.
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