AND BEFORE CONGRESS, BROUGHT THIS TODAY FROM THE FORMER HEAD
OF THE CIA. >> I STUDIED RUSSIAN
INTELLIGENCE ACTIVITIES OVER THE YEARS AND I HAVE SEEN IT AGAIN
MANIFEST IN MANY DIFFERENT COUNTER INTELLIGENCE CASES.
AND HOW THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET PEOPLE, INCLUDING INSIDE OF
CIA TO BECOME TREASONOUS. AND FREQUENTLY INDIVIDUALS WHO
GO ALONG THAT TREASONOUS PATH DO NOT EVEN REALIZE THEY ARE ALONG
THAT PATH UNTIL IT GETS TO BE A BIT TOO LATE.
>> MR. BRENNAN IS A VETERAN OF WHAT WE CALL THE SILENT SERVICE,
THE BUSINESS OF BEING A SPY. JOINING ME NOW, JACK BARSKI A
FORMER KGB SPY LIVING IN THE U.S. DURING THE COLD WAR.
HE LATER COOPERATED WITH THE FBI AND IS NOW AN AMERICAN CITIZEN.
HE IS ALSO THE AUTHOR OF "DEEP UNDERCOVER".
AND MALCOLM NAPS, MSNBC TERRORISM ANALYST, 35 YEAR
VETERAN OF THE TRADE INCLUDING NAVY INTELLIGENCE, SPECIAL
OPERATIONS, HOMELAND SECURITY. MALCOLM LITERALLY WROTE THE BOOK
ON WHAT JUST HAPPENED TO OUR ELECTION AS IT WAS HAPPENING.
GENTLEMEN, WELCOME TO YOU BOTH. JACK I'LL BEGIN WITH YOU.
THE RUSSIANS HAVE BEEN DESCRIBED KIND OF LIKE MUTUAL FUND
MANAGERS IN THIS BUSINESS. THEY HAVE ENDLESS PAIRS, THEY
ARE WILLING TO INVEST IN SOMEONE EVEN KNOWING IN A A SMALL
PERCENTAGE OF THEIR INVESTMENT COMES TRUE AT THE END.
BUT HOW DO YOU TURN SOMEONE WITHOUT THAT PERSON KNOWING THEY
HAVE BEEN TURNED? >> FUNDAMENTALLY, YOU CAN'T.
YOU KNOW, YOU CAN CULTIVATE A SOURCE AND MAKE THEM REALLY
COMFORTABLE WITH YOU. LET'S SAY I'M FSB.
I'M A BUSINESS PERSON. AND I BEFRIEND AN AMERICAN
BUSINESS PERSON. AND I BECOME CHUMMY WITH THEM.
AND I -- YOU KNOW, I GET INFORMATION, AND I GO HIM SOME
INFORMATION. IT'S ALMOST LIKE A FRIENDSHIP
DEVELOPED. THE AMERICAN DOESN'T KNOW THAT
HE IS BEING PLAYED. TO TURN A PERSON, YOU HAVE TO
BECOME DIRECT. YOU HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, SOMEHOW
THERE HAS TO BE AN AGREEMENT IN PLACE THAT THE OTHER PERSON IS
GOING TO GIVE YOU SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT FOR WHATEVER YOU PAY
HIM. EITHER THAT'S MONEY OR IS, YOU
KNOW, NOT DISCLOSING A SECRET OR SOMETHING ELSE OF BUT JUST
GETTING SOMEBODY TO DO YOUR BIDDING WITHOUT THEM ABSOLUTELY
KNOWING, THAT'S TO ME IS IMPOSSIBLE.
>> MALCOLM, SAME QUESTION, WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT HOW THIS PROCESS
WORKS. >> WELL, IT'S QUITE SIMPLE.
AND WHAT JACK SAID THERE WAS VERY, VERY TRUE.
THIS IS A RELATIONSHIP. IT'S A DANCE THAT GOES ON
BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE. AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW THAT THAT
OFFICER IS AN INTELLIGENCE OFFICER, AND THEY SPOT YOU AS A
TARGET, THEY CAN VERY EASILY MANIPULATE YOU THROUGH THAT
RELATIONSHIP. AND AS I WROTE IN "PLOT TO HACK
AMERICA", DONALD TRUMP HAD A RELATIONSHIP GOING BACK DECADES.
BUT IN 2013 HIS RELATIONSHIP CHANGED WITH PEOPLE WHO WERE IN
RUSSIA THAT HE THOUGHT OF AS OLIGARCHS, PEOPLE WHO WERE
EXTREMELY RICH. BUT THOSE PEOPLE ARE OPERATING
AT THE SUFFERANCE OF VLADIMIR PUTIN A FORMER KGB HUMAN
INTELLIGENCE OFFICER. AND THAT PERSON KNOWS THAT HE --
THAT HIS INTELLIGENCE SERVICE COLLECTS INDIVIDUALS LIKE DONALD
TRUMP AND HIS ACCO LIGHTS IN AN EFFORT TO TUESDAY USE THEM TO DO
THEIR BIDDING. THAT EXPLAINS TRUMP'S FOREIGN
POLICY BEING ALMOST MIRROR IMAGE OF MOSCOW'S.
THAT BEING SAID, YOU KNOW, USING MONEY, IDEOLOGY, COOPTION,
COERCION AND EGO, WHICH SPELLS MICE, WHICH IS THE BASIC
RECRUITMENT TOOL IT IS EASY TO PUT INDIVIDUAL STRINGS ON TO
INDIVIDUALS AND TURN THEM AT FIRST INTO UNWITTING ASSETS AND
THEN INTO WITTING AGENTS. >> JACK, KNOWING WHAT YOU KNOW
ABOUT THE RUSSIAN SYSTEM, HOW THEY OPERATED, DO YOU HAVE ANY
DOUBT THAT THIS RUNS AS DEEP INTO THE CAMPAIGN AS SOME HAVE
ALLEGED? >> YEAH, I HAVE SOME DOUBT.
AND I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH MR. BRENNAN WHEN HE TALKED --
WHEN HE TALKS IN ADMIRING WORDS ABOUT THE SOVIET AND RUSSIAN
CAPABILITIES. MY FBI FRIENDS TELL ME THAT THE
FSB, THE SECRET SERVICE THAT NOW RUNS THE SERVICE OVER THERE IS
NOT AS EFFECTIVE AS THE KGB WAS. CASE IN POINT, YOU PROBABLY
REMEMBER THAT IN 2010 THERE WERE FIVE UNDERCOVER AGENTS, COUPLES
THEY WERE CALLED. THEY WERE UNDERCOVER, ON BEHALF
OF THE FSB. AND WHEN I SAW AND HEARD HOW
THEY OPERATED, I WAS SHAKING MY HEAD.
THEY MISSED THE BEGINNERS CLASS ON HOW TO BE AN UNDERCOVER
AGENT. SO WHILE THEY ARE STILL CAPABLE
AND CAGEY AND SMART, AND THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, THEY
ARE NOT AS GOOD AS THE SOVIET KGB WAS.
>> MALCOLM, WE'VE ESTABLISHED THAT KGB HAD "CAGEY" IN THE
TITLE. DO YOU CONCEDE THAT THE FSB IS
NOT AS IMPRESSIVE. >> I THINK IT IS A DIFFERENT
ANIMAL. THE KGW WAS IDEA LOGICALLY
ORIENTED AND VERY TARGET FOCUSED.
THE FSB IS A CREATURE THAT CAME OUT OF PUTIN'S RISE TO POWER ON
THE BACK OF AN ENORMOUS QUANTITY OF ILLEGAL MONEY.
SO THE FSB HAS BEEN ORIENTED MORE -- YOU KNOW, THEY STILL
HAVE ALL THE BASIC HALLMARKS OF THE KGB BUT THEY USE MON AND
INTEGRATION OF CAPITALISM AS THEIR MAIN INTRODUCTORY TOO MUCH
OF THEY DON'T PAY AS WE ALL KNOW THEY DON'T PAY AT ALL IN THE WAY
THAT A REAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY WOULD.
BUT THEY DO MANIPULATE PEOPLE ON THE BASIS OF MONEY.
YOU MAY RECALL THE POST MOST FAMOUS OF THAT TEAM ANNA
CHAPMAN, HER JOB WAS TO RUN AROUND AND MAKE CONTACT WITH
HIGH VALUE PEOPLE AND POSED AS A
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