hey Christopher here we are coming up on episode 100 of the musicality podcast
crazy this has been an incredible journey so far and I'm truly honored
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thought that what would be most useful would be a way to help you get all the
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won't want to miss this it's musicalitypodcast.com/celebrate Hello this
is Fiona Jane Weston from FionaJaneWeston.com and you are listening to
the musicality podcast ever wondered why some people seem to have a gift for
music have you ever wished that you could play by ear sing in tune improvise
and jam you're in the right place time to turn those wishes into reality
welcome to the musicality podcast with your host Christopher Sutton
hi this is Christopher founder of musical u and welcome to the
musicality podcast today on the show I'm excited to be joined by one of London's
leading cabaret performance Fiona Jane Weston
Fiona Jane has created and performed several highly acclaimed cabaret shows
in the UK and internationally including wartime women about the roles women have
historically played in warfare and looking for Lansbury celebrating the
life heritage and career of actress Angela Lansbury cabaret is a performing
art that I've enjoyed but never really known a time about and I was really
curious to see what an expert like Fiona Jane might be able to share
since it would likely use musicality in a different way than a performing
musician it definitely lived up to that expectation there were some really
interesting ideas here that I don't think we've talked about on the show
before in this conversation we talked about what defines cabaret and what
makes for good cabaret we talked about storytelling
through song the importance of it both in cabaret and in music more generally
and we talked about connecting with your audience and what we can learn from the
uniquely intimate environment of a cabaret show something that came out of
our discussion that I wasn't expecting was why cabaret might be more accessible
to you or any passionate amateur musician then you might have imagined my
name is Christopher Sutton and this is the musicality podcast from musical u
welcome to the show Fiona Jane thank you for joining us today thank you for
having me I'm really excited to talk with you because I have enjoyed cabaret
as a layperson but it's not something I know anything about in great depth and
you are someone who knows about it in intimate detail and so I'm really
excited to learn from you and I want to ask first
were you a cabaret performer from day one did you leap onto the stage age six
singing cavalry and show tunes or what was your earliest musical experience
like probably it was a bit like that if I'm really truthful I I certainly as a
little girl wanted to get up and entertain and I wanted everybody in
there in the house and all the dolls and all the Teddy's to be listening and
while I got up there and did my little bit with an umbrella I remember doing a
little dance and all the rest of it and I would also want to recite my poetry
which I called at the age of four poster II so I think it was probably always in
there and I do remember looking at old films on the television and seeing these
lovely glamorous ladies in their long frocks in films set in the 30s and 40s
in America and they would be there be tables and people would be drinking down
this lady would come out and she was singing she would address the audience
and so on and I think I knew then yeah I'll do that amazing and what
seed your early education looked like for that and were you as someone who was
just natural and went straight into shows and performing did you study
acting or music along the way I started dancing quite early actually because I
had a dance teacher come to my school and I just found her fascinating to
watch and I just I don't know that was something in me that always led into
that direction and although I didn't receive any formal music training at all
eventually I persuaded my parents to send me to dance lessons and the acting
came very much later because it named fact even with my with ballet training
it was clear that I didn't really have the flexibility in my body to do to
become a professional dancer but what I was good at was the character roles and
the sort of more fiery Spanish he sort of roles or try to it expresses its
story to it all or Little Red Riding Hood or something like
that where I would actually be wanting to express an emotion so I think the
acting came out of that recognizing that's really probably where my talent
particularly lay and my parents were very good certainly anything to do with
that they didn't want me to go into anything of that sort that type at all
so I do - filli did my my academic degree and I study the Asian Studies
actually and I learned Mandarin but I wanted to specialize in my thesis the
the arts the Performing Arts of China particularly Communist China and how it
was used for propaganda purposes and then even further wanted to look at the
the Performing Arts of the minority peoples and how they were trying to sort
of keep up their own identity in the face of well I wouldn't like to use the
word oppression but I mean there was the hand people were very much in dominance
and so even my university thesis that our honors level was about the minority
theaters so he was always there and although mypos tried desperately hard to
keep you in the academic sphere of things in the end I think you just have
to go where your heart set and it's going to you it
your natural instincts ago to take you there whether anybody likes it or not
including yourself really I kind of had a love-hate relationship with the
profession ever since and so where did your heart lead you up to University you
were feeling this draw how did you pursue that I started initially doing
well I joined the Australian diplomatic corps in the a department because living
in Australia at the time and in Canberra at that time there was a strong amateur
theater scene and I got involved with that and my first show was a musical and
I was cast in the lead and I was terrified but I did it and it went well
much to my great surprise at the time and then that led to this feeling of
I've just got to do more and more and then I started doing professional stuff
as well and things started well of course the two career stars started to
clash and eventually one particularly insightful manager who was from England
actually he called me into his office and said look I gave you an assignment
which is way above your level and I confess it I gave it to you because I
was too lazy to do it myself and I have to say that your historical
and political analysis is second to none your finance section was a complete mess
and I said well I never did say I get out up look I have to tell you that you
are a square peg in a round hole you are never gonna fit in here you are never
gonna rise to the top here not least because you're female but also because
you're the way you you think and the way you you act the way you respond to
things it's just not going to work here I think you should go and do what your
heart is set on and within three weeks I had packed up my bags and I had left
Australia and I came to England in the pursuit of a theatrical career no that's
what I did I had also in the meantime done some training quite a lot of
professional training in Australia part-time but yeah that's that's how I
did it well that's what a brave and romantic leap you took across the ocean
romantic at the time I think I was just very dogged and I thought well you know
I'd had I'd had enough training and experience by then to know that actually
I did have something like good offer and I thought well I'm just
going to do it because I was miserable working in any other real environment
really so I said well okay here it is here I go that's what I did
so it came back I had family here - yeah hmm tell us a little bit about that
training you'd had along the way well I I took singing lessons professionally I
took I took that very seriously and I kept doing a lot of performance as much
as I could get and being as it was a small town and they weren't that many
people it wasn't such a big pool I mean if I'd if I'd been somewhere like Sydney
it would have been much more difficult I'm sure the competition would have been
just so much greater but in in Canberra then it was still very much a small town
although it's the capital of Australia it was kind of the administrative centre
and so I did I had a lot of experience actually doing it
plus I took the singing training plus I took the acting training and the acting
training didn't cover music but it very much tapped into my instincts that were
already there and gave me the technique I needed to be able to approach a
character and tap into that creative element which enables you to improvise
and to find where where the character lies and also whether where the inner
internal story is so that set me up in many ways for the approach that I've
taken two things ever since and although my initial degree was in modern Asian
Studies it was very much based on history and politics and so on and so
even that was all taught storytelling even that was all about you know the
history of how China became a communist country and I've learned Mandarin I
lived in China for a while and I became very interested in the women's stories
particularly I was very stood in women's history anyway because of my training in
Australia with at school really I mean Germaine Greer came from from Queensland
you know who set up the whole women's movement there and so on so that was
always in there and think the whole the whole package of
history being a story whether it's his story or in more modern parlance we
might say her story if you're talking about women's history and what it can
tell stories and wanting to entertain all of that it all slotted him together
and that was really how it all began wonderful there were a couple of things
there that I'm particularly keen to dig into a little bit and one is what you
just touched on that you have a particular interest and ability in
combining the kind of historical viewpoint with the musical artistic
creative output and we'll circle back to that in a moment but the other thing you
mentioned was that you're training it helps you kind of tap into the character
and the story and the emotion that would bring the music to life in an effective
way and that's something I'd really like to hear more about because on this show
we talked a lot about I suppose expressiveness in music and musically
meaningful performances and what distinguishes you know a robotic player
from one who really seems to have a gift for music and really Wow's the audience
and I think you have a particularly interesting perspective on this because
you come maybe more from the acting side than the kind of conservatory musician
side of things where the musician might be thinking of in notes and scales and
dynamics and very kind of technical terms and you come in at it I believe
more from the storytelling perspective and the actors mindset yes yes I think
you tell a story in theater in so many ways and everything has to tell that
story for it to be a successful performance so everybody does whether
it's the lighting person whether it's the set designer the costume
the director obviously that performers the actors and the music too even the
music that doesn't have words attached to it should be lending itself to that
story and sometimes interestingly the melody
that's paid underneath a tune that the singer might be singing might actually
be contradicting what the singer is singing with words and you hear that
very particularly in a lot of sometimes music but others too and that adds a
very interesting edge to it because I meet for example why don't one
example I can think of is in buddy's eyes which is from Follies no it's not a
song that I've sung but it's the song I've listened to quite a lot and it
starts off really quite sentimentally and she's sort of saying oh you know my
husband still really loves me and you know even though I'm old in his eyes I
never get older you know I'm he will always be there for me and so on and
then as it goes on you realize that something's not quite right here and
there's something in the accompaniment that suggests she's either not speaking
the truth or she's denying the truth because she can't face it and if you're
listening out for things like that that's where you know that you're on to
something you're on to something that that's where the performer by clinging
into things like that can use the dynamics can also change the quality of
their voice and change the way they're looking at the character they're talking
to or moving but the body language should change to just sort of indicate
yeah I'm saying all of these marvelous things yes yes yes this is really true
but I don't anything I just actually know I'm in love with you and I always
was I'm not in love with my husband and that's really what she's saying really
underneath it and the marriage has not been successful that she's been living
all these years interesting and over those years when you were training you
mentioned training it helped in some regard with this aspect of things were
there any particular techniques or ideas that helped you figure out how to do
that because I think as you described it people can understand the kind of thing
you're talking about but it's it's very different to get up on stage and take
her in a shape of that role and figure that stuff out for yourself
maybe I don't think I was trained in that I don't think so I think that came
just simply from an awful lot of listening and an awful lot of thinking
and wanting to portray the person and I was more intent on presenting the person
I was trying to become then I wasn't anything else and but because it's music
you can't just change the timing on it completely without any sense so you do
need to be listening to where the music is taking you as well
so rather than fight against that it's a case of using it but having said that
depending on the genre particularly with cabaret and particular with anything
jazz are interested obviously you can play with the the rhythms and the tempo
in order to express an idea in a different way as long as you don't go
completely out of sync with one another and like that sort of thing I learned
through experience and also through working with musical directors who
understood what I was trying to do and were able we were able to have that kind
of conversation whereby they were to some extent able to follow me but also I
was learning to listen to them so I think it's about listening a lot and
it's about communication and I wouldn't say that it came through any
particularly any through any of my formal training at all certainly some
acting through songs workshops that I've attended some of this has been touched
on and particularly musical theater performers they often are looking for
expressive ways to doing it and incidentally a lot of musical theater
performers don't read music or don't read music very well so there's
something in the way in which we are taught to think like that and if you can
if you're working with actors I would strongly recommend that if you can get
the actor to think about motivations and feelings they will probably breathe at
the right point in any case even if they can't read a note fascinating I think
it's such a valuable lens to think about all of this through
because thinking now about the listener who maybe plays an instrument but
doesn't do any acting and doesn't think in terms of theater it's such a powerful
mindset shift to actually ask yourself what is this music trying to say not
just am i playing the right notes at the right times and obeying the dynamic
markings but what am I trying to get across to the audience you know I look
back somewhat embarrassedly at when I was learning a clarinet or saxophone and
I was playing one of the movements from Minsky's pictures from an exhibition
right and this is a work of music composed around visual artists of each
around a painting and I literally never saw the painting I worked for months on
this piece and it never occurred to me I could go in and find out what this was
inspired by in what he was trying to conjure up and looking back that just
seems ridiculous but I think it's so easy as musicians to get trapped in that
bubble of dots on a page or just the notes and the technique and we forget
that it is a storytelling art to a large extent or it can be and and we should
always be asking that question over you know what am I trying to convey or
Express yes yes I don't think the decisions are the only ones who are
guilty of that I are I think actually a lot of dancers are it becomes such an
exercise in gymnastic technique and that it's there is a danger that you you're
not gonna move anybody that you're not kids really a dancer too is telling a
story through their movement and through their whole feeling and embodiment of
the emotion of the time I think it's very important not to lose sight of that
there's an audience out there this isn't an exercise and self and down to
indulgence it's important to be able to do that but also to be fair not not all
music isn't is easily lent to doing that again Stephen Sondheim is notoriously
difficult everybody knows that you know his rhythms are very very tricky it's
often very fiddly it can take a long time to learn his
stuff but I tell you what actors who have never read a note of music adore
doing his things and there's a reason for that the reason is really that
he he writes so well for a character he's actually thinking what the
characters thinking and therefore these strange odd little moments of pauses and
rests that came in the middle of a line are actually there for a dramatic reason
and I was taught I mean I've sung quite a lot of quite a number of times now
worst pies in London I only had one lesson to learn how to do that because I
could only save this particular vocal coach for one lesson for one hour and
what she did was help me to sort of see what the character well looked that part
of it I could I could work out for myself where the character might have
been what coach is feeling in different sections of the song but in order to
help me get some of these odd rhythms she also got me to go hmm or clap or
stamp my foot or do something where something strange was about to happen so
that I didn't sing the notes where I thought I should be singing the notes
but rather wet soup time to think how it goes now wait what's your rush what's
your hurry you gave me such a fright I thought he was a ghost half commit
that's so then thought you were a ghost you've got to have that thing there and
I thought well actually if she's thinking about it goes she might do that
little intake of breath and so by doing it in that mechanical way she's got me
to speak it and put some kind of sound or or intake of loud intake of breath in
where these strange pauses were and then but by going over that and getting that
into my body I suddenly found all of the dramatic reasons to do it and sometime
is brilliant for that absolutely wonderful
so we've abandoned the poor young Fiona James midway across the ocean on her way
back to London where did things go from there when you were returning to this
movie not returning to but you were starting afresh a new career direction
for you and a new purpose in life well it took a few years to really kind of
establish where I was really apart from anything else because I didn't know
London at all and so it's just just trying to sort of get settled although I
did get a job within a year in fact it was a few months after arriving here I
got a job at the theatre a children's theater going around and
again music was part of that as well and then I got a job in a cabaret a cabaret
sorry in ER and a pantomime where I this is cringe make you I played the the maid
that got to marry the handsome prince and in the meantime the handsome prince
and I actually became romantically entangled offstage I settled he was an
actor as well so that's really well obviously that's you know that been
grounded me here and I just took things as they came along I took as many
classes as I could in professional theatre because though you can do that
in London I mean places like City Lit where a professional level you could
actually go in and also there was a marvelous singing teacher for actors
that came in from America his name was Chuck Colson and he was he was fabulous
he would say to us as a bunch of actors because they were actors there who were
terrified of singing terrified that they sang out of tune and all sorts of things
I loved it they would they were scared of doing it which is why they came to
that class and he would say things that would just liberate them to be who they
were and and we got to write down the words and to learn the words quite
separately from the music so that we could bring all our acting instincts to
that as we might to a piece of poetry and then he would just say things like
the audience don't care if you had to splash this about 37 times before you
got that line right it doesn't matter but the audience don't care and neither
does Chuck doesn't matter how many times you had to learn to sing that song as
long as you only get in there you find
and at some point in this journey cabaret entered the picture and became a
real focus for you how did that come to be
well I got to an age where I was not getting the amount of work that
had been getting and I wasn't quite in the next age bracket so that I was in
this kind of slightly awkward in-between part and I got very fed up without
getting any work and so I went to become I actually took my PGCE and I became a
primary school teacher and I realized within about 10 minutes that this was a
bit of a mistake actually although I enjoyed teaching young children I didn't
enjoy the restrictions of the whole system and so on and I just thought oh
gosh now I can't I you know this is not going to keep me satisfied at all and
within a couple of years I had to stop anyway because I'd become ill over
something and I'd um I had to stop for a while to get some sick leave and in that
time I took that time to rethink what I was doing and I took the exams to become
a teacher in the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art of the lamda exams to
become a lamda teacher as well as do my ballet exam teaching as well and in me
and those if this changed now but at that time you had to choose an entire
century of the drama and the the prose and the poetry of a century so you might
be able to choose the Elizabethan era or the Greeks and like an idiot I chose
20th century because I thought all I know will the drama content already
pretty well and my teacher did say to me she said look I understand why you might
like the idea of taking the 20th century but you do realize that was the one
where everybody could read and write and it's a vast amount of work and you do
have a lot of gaps in your poetry and prose well I still did it like a fool
and have managed to get through it but one of the parts of that exam was after
you had done your Viper about all of the knowledge behind it you then had to give
a 20-minute presentation we you had to include a piece of poetry a piece of
drama and a piece of prose from that era and you could include more than one
piece but it all had to be linked in some way that became the basis I did
actually a piece on twentieth century woman and the progression that the women
had made throughout that century that they named became the
basis for my first one-woman show and I took the idea to a director a good
friend of mine we worked on it and I created his cabaret with him and put it
on at the battersea barge and then not long after that I got an opportunity to
audition for Yale Yale University there was a cabaret
intensive course going on there there was it was loosely related to the drama
department there and I got a scholarship but much to my great surprise so I knew
I had to go because I mean you know it was there was no excuse then I had to do
it and there were amazing people on teaching us I mean just amazing people
do you know the Rose well Amanda McBroom some say there's a river it was one of
the most famous songs from the time I Bette Midler had a big hit with it the
woman who wrote that Amanda mcbroom was on the on the course there was people
that were very well known in America including Tony Award winners people's
are somewhat like Tova Feld Xu and Sallie Mae's and sorts of very
well-known people they're teaching us and they were their whole intents and
purpose was to get us to sing the songs tell the story through the song and
actually make the Cabaret to actually you know in Korean how to make a cabaret
happen and I came away from that realizing that I not only knew what I
was talking about already with cabaret but more to the point I knew what I knew
was talking about if that makes sense suddenly I had the confidence to realize
like I do know about this this is actually always what I've been working
towards and then that started off a whole lot of other shows and I had all
of this creativity going on and I just it's been game-changer it really has
that from then I've always had a project that I've been wanting to do and perform
and it's taken me all over the places take it though I do one on wartime women
looking at the roles women of play throughout warfare but concentrating
mainly on that on the great Wars and that's taken me to Belgium and so on and
so I still do plays I still get work in the theater but mostly I
concentrate on my cabaret career terrific and I'm gonna ask on behalf of
maybe some of our listeners who aren't familiar what is cabaret before we talk
more in depth about it oh gosh that is not an easy question to answer actually
because it has so many meanings for certain it is such a wide umbrella on
one end of the scale you've got very much what I call the alternative scene
with the burlesque and circus training and so on and more at the other end of
much more sort of if you like it more classical what I would call songbook
cabaret is people singing and the important thing about that is that
unlike a concert where there's a distance between you and the audience
and unlike a musical where you are completely embodying a character it is
you singing to the audience and expressing your ideas and emotions to
the audience breaking down what we might call the fourth wall so in a theater
you've got the three walls around you either left the right behind you and
then there's supposed to be an invisible fourth wall between you and the audience
so that if you're a character you're staying in your living room you're not
actually supposed to be aware of the audience out in front in cabaret we
break that completely down and you are very much talking to the audience
themselves they are very much part of that it's a small intimate setting
people are sitting around tables drinking ordering drinks from the bar
you can address people in the audience - addressed from stage you know self you
know Jane Weston's in right and they have a little chat and they come around
and you know you can go around and have a little flirt with people and so on
it's it's it and then you go back onto the stage and you will sing something
else that you're telling something through that not only through the songs
but hopefully some kind of theme not to the point where you get completely
caught up in it necessarily but it's you've got so much more scope to take it
in a new direction so you might take a song that was originally written for a
show perhaps and then you can change it to suit that new occasion where it's
telling a different story and you might want to express the different emotion
through it and bring something very new to that and sing it in your own voice
and in your own way because you're expressing another idea with that and
rather like when you go to an art gallery you will look at a painting but
if it's placed next to another painting it will have a different aspect to it
that you hadn't thought of because of where is placed so that's a very long
answer but that's the sort of things you need to be thinking about if you're
going to put together a show yourself it's not just a case of this is a song
by whoever and this is another song I like this and because I like it I'm
gonna sing it it really ideally you want to have something a little bit more
concrete in your reasoning for choosing a piece and for singing it to the
audience
wonderful description and I think it really highlights what we were talking
about before and the importance both for remembering you have an audience and you
need to connect with them and this idea of weaving a story through your songs I
think it's is immediately clear now why cadbury connected with you so much if
those were the things you were feeling drawn to and feeling you are good at so
just a quick clarification you mentioned another term people might have heard
which is one-woman show it's cabaret always a solo endeavor where it's one
person presenting the entire performance or how does it work
it generally is but it doesn't have to be at all
there are various ways you can do it I mean there are two O's that get up and
and do you know a piece together as a duet together usually one some kind of
semi comedic situation I you you could effectively do it with a larger group as
well depending on how is structured really as much as anything else
certainly I mean I have another form of a cabaret - which is a only Jane and
West End friends and I run it rather like a chat show so that I open the set
with a couple of songs myself and then explain to the audience what the concept
of that is and I bring on guest artists and they might be a Western performer
they might also be a musical director or a choreographer who might have something
else to share there's some other perspective on the business
I will also always have a cabaret singer if I can and I'll entertain them I'll
give them a cup of tea or a drink or a cocktail and we'll sit down at the table
and we'll chat together about their projects and what they are doing and
then they get up and do something so they can show something of their work
and if it's a musical director who doesn't want to sing they might bring
another guest artist and so everybody gets a chance to network but and then
you might I might have as many as seven or eight people at some point joining me
on stage so it doesn't have to be a solo thing so if somebody is a bit afraid of
doing that join forces with somebody else who wants to do it get in a
director get someone else who can help you
preferably somebody who understands the genre but it's you don't have to be
completely on your own especially if you're one if you're starting out and
you're not sure how to go about it there are there is help out there and you
don't have to perform by yourself all the time
wonderful so I'd like to circle back to something I said I would come back to
which was that you are particularly able and known for weaving together
historical themes or kind of real-life matter-of-fact issues like women in the
twentieth century or you did one cabaret show on the history and maybe mythology
of London and I I would love to hear more about that because I think you
touched on feeling drawn to do all of this and you know you said you were
never short of projects now that you had found kind of your medium and Ivy I know
that if I were feeling inspired to say on a show about London I would
immediately feel very intimidated because it's such a big thing and if
something everyone's gonna have an opinion on and compared to you know
sitting in my bedroom and writing a love song out of nowhere
it can seem I think quite quite intimidating or quite overwhelming so
I'd love to hear how you found your way into that and and any advice you'd have
for someone who is feeling similarly inspired but maybe can't see the root
for that inspiration to actually putting
something together well London London show was was that was pretty vast
actually in two thousand years of London in less than two hours was yeah pressure
they're so much written about in for the Performing Arts
I mean all of the musical material to start you've also got samuel peeps his
diary I mean I used some of that not everybody can do spoken word but I'd
love to bring in spoke a word for mine there is poetry written about London
there all sorts of anecdotes people have had to say about its songs about London
find all of the things that you love about whatever it is that you want to
talk about sift through it throw them all on the floor and then move them
about like a pack of cards alright and then decide start to shape your show
from that there are various techniques that you can use to do that you can look
entirely at the I was or I would always suggest that you start with the lyrics
as much as anything I'll start with the lyrics because you might find that you
will see a story am naturally emerging then shopping your cars around again and
see where something comes from that then think about where the musical highlights
are where the comedic highlights are where you're going to be doing something
different are you going to be bringing on a guest artist and then slowly a
shape will emerge and then you'll have something far too long and they'll have
to cut a million things out and the art as with a lot of these things is in what
you keep in and what you cut out and it's quite difficult and sometimes it
takes more than one performance for you to realize that you know what that bit
still too long I'm going to cut this or that or I might bring that back bit back
in that I thought I would cut don't be afraid to experiment in front of people
don't be afraid to get in a test audience and slowly it will come
together but it will come together and it will be the most satisfying thing
you've ever done
you touched on something there that I don't think we talked about yet which is
that spoken word can be a feature of it you know cabaret is not just singing
song after song or at least not necessarily and and there are other
things people should keep in mind as what could be a part of their cabaret
show yes if you're a good instrumentalist and you've got something
you can do with that to it there is a chap and in the states in New York I saw
him can't remember his name I can't tell you it but he does our whole cabaret
with his violin and he tells in a way he makes musical jokes with the violin and
again you know if you've got a musical director with you if you've got a
pianist with you who is a bit of a showman use that use that if you can
have some kind of rapport with the person who's accompanying you use that
don't let anybody just sit there ah there if you've got other talents that
you want to bring to the fore I mean a friend of mine was very very good at
comedic things and she brings in a lot of her her comedic work to it use use
whatever you want to to express those those aspects of yourself because
cabaret is about being being you on stage even if it's a persona you've
created it's if you've got that freedom to do that and also it's what people
want people want to connect with you it's much more personal than it would be
if you were doing a concert that's got a big distance between you people want to
feel somehow that they've got to know the essence of you by watching your show
so yes anything that you have that's a passion that's an interests bring
something of that in definitely it's a case of structuring it hmm
well I think what has come across clearly to me that I was maybe not fully
appreciative of before is the careful thought and planning that goes into a
good cabaret show and I think that's maybe a little bit because that word is
bandied about a lot you know you alluded to there being this whole spectrum but I
think there also probably a lot of things called cavalry that maybe are not
really you know for example I definitely come across cases where it's
really used to mean talent show and we'll get a group of a dozen people
we'll let them each do the song they know or the juggling act they can do
we'll put it all together in one performance and call that a cabaret
yeah I think what's really come across from hearing you talk about this is that
it is much more intentional and the fact that there is a casual atmosphere by no
means means that it's a casual act that you throw together you know that can be
intense thought and planning and preparation that goes into it yes yes
yeah and also I I personally don't like it if the performers themselves are too
casual in the way they dress or oh but depending on their act I mean you know
obviously it may not always apply but generally speaking I think that when
people come to a cabaret of this type they want to see something glamorous
they want to see something that's going to take them out of the world it might
be a girls night out and might be very important to them you might be taking
you you you know your mother out for something it's this should be a dress-up
occasion it should be something that people really look forward to
don't let your audience down don't go in there dressing like you were to go to
the shops you know really make the effort this is a this is a form of
Theatre in its own way lift people out of where they are that's our job that's
what we're meant to do that's why we're here that's what performance is all
about that's what that's I mean as my doctor once said to me said we don't
need any more accountants we don't need people like that we need people like you
who get up and entertain so get up there today be a star that shines and I love
that you know what I just had somewhat disparagingly about talent shows there
is a kernel of truth there which you talked about which is that you know it
is an expression of yourself and your own abilities and your own passions and
I think that makes a very versatile art form you know it's not you having to
force yourself into a certain role or a whole work of music or theater and you
know doing it exactly as written this is something that you craft yourself to
match what you are naturally strong with that and passionate about alpha me
I have a couple of German friends who bring the most interesting perspective
on their cabaret they really do because of course Germany has a very fine
tradition it with Vimal and watching what they can do with their pieces and
what they bring their own history in their own family history into that is is
great really a so you this there's so many things in it go to yourself go to
your own story and see what you can bring out that will that will be and
people will find it interesting because they're interested in other people's
lives apart from their own well I have to say it never occurred to me that
cabaret could be as accessible a form of expression as you have made it sound
that you know this sounds like something that anyone who's done a bit of singing
or done a bit of music and has a passion for a particular topic could put
together themselves are there any caveats or any pointers you'd give to
someone who's been listening to this and feeling super excited about maybe
putting a cabaret together themselves um I would say definitely try definitely go
for it because I think you'll get a little pleasure from it keep an eye on
where you're going to perform it and remember by and large the space that you
have physically is likely to be very small so don't put in a whole great big
dance number that requires a lot of a big stage because you ain't gonna have
the room so by all means if you're a dancer and you want to show that you can
there are people who do that but you just remember how small and tight the
space is going to be so a lot of your expression has to be made within that
space remember that you are including people in the audience that if some
rooms are very strangely set up and it's difficult to connect with everybody in
that'll audience practice that in your in your rehearsals I do think it's a
good idea to work with the director if you can work with somebody who who is
good at sitting out the front and be able to sort of see where things might
improve watch the structure of your work and if you remember this is a long show
if you're doing it on your own make sure you're vocally ready for it because
actually you can't take a break in the way that you could if you're in a
musical where you might be offstage for a minute
no you're not gonna be on station for 10 minutes apart from if you set an
interval and even then that probably means you've got a longer show so yeah
you're technicality still has to be there you can't let that just go all go
to pieces just because you want to be expressive you'll be more expressive if
you've got the technique behind you great advice you seem to be someone who
not only has a real passion for cabaret and producing your own shows but also I
think you you clearly have a kind of advocate spirit in you you want to
encourage people to get involved in this what are you up to the quality is Fiona
Jane Western working on and what's coming next I'm about to do a version of
Fiona Jane Western sorry Fiona Jane and Western friends in a private club and in
the city that's going to be in the next couple of weeks in later in the year
because of Remembrance Sunday coming up again I'm doing a big charity gala in
the Charing Cross theatre which I'm co-producing with the lady from Belgium
where there's gonna be all sorts of stars from the West End involved in it
as well and that's going to be the process of which will go to people like
combat stress and the British Legion and so on so that's on October the 28th then
I hope to do some more of wartime women because it's always such a fun show to
do as well both in Belgium and in London and I also hope to revive another show
I've done on on the actress Angela Lansbury so I've got a whole big show on
on her and that would be nice to her to bring that out and also I hope to launch
some kind of consultancy for people who want to do cabaret or want to do their
own one-woman shows or one-man shows even if it doesn't involve music if I
can be of help to anybody they're welcome to contact me that would be
absolutely fine get on to me through my website wonderful and I'm sure it's
clear from listening to this conversation that you would have a
wealth of experience and wisdom to share with someone who is at that beginner
stage or even further along in their cabaret journey so where's the best
place for people to go to learn all about your upcoming shows and to get in
touch if they'd like to for help with cabaret
okay go to WWE Jay in western comm it's all one word Fiona Jane Western
takes forever to type and then at the bottom of the each page there is a
contact page there there's also a little envelope if you press that I hope it
works you should be able to get up a form where you can sign up to my
newsletter list and that's where you will know where I'm performing and when
but also you know there's somewhere around all about is it an email address
for you but in fact the email address is the same it's just Fiona Jane act Fiona
Jane Weston comm contact me there and I'd be I'd be delighted to hear from you
because you know I'd love to know what you're doing what your projects are and
what what what floats your boat what makes you want to do a cabaret wonderful
thank you well it it really has opened my eyes and my mind to what cabaret
involves and what it can involve and I am absolutely in no position to run off
and produce a cabaret back and help that feel that I want to right now maybe
after this conversation we'll turn off the recorder we could talk some cavalry
ideas it's been really genuinely inspiring and I think also enlightening
you know whether or not someone's going away from this wanting to produce
cavalry there is clearly a ton that any musician can learn from the world of
theatre and from the world of cavalry so just a very big thank you if you're
entertained for joining us today and sharing some of your insights on this
thank you very much I've loved it thank you so much
unlock your full musicality with musical you membership join well you could
probably hear in my voice there but I finished up that interview a lot more
fired up about cabaret than I expected to be there were several really
interesting lessons there I think apart from the general message that cabaret
might be an art form worth you exploring further let's do a quick recap
Fiona Jane was naturally drawn to performance putting on shows and
reciting poetry as a child but she was drawn away from that natural inclination
into the world of academic studies however even there she took the
opportunity to focus our work on the arts where possible and was continually
doing training and taking part in shows on the side she kept that passion alive
until bravely taking the lead to move country and
career and become an actor in London two themes which jumped out hearing
Fiona J and talked about her theatre training were storytelling through song
and the importance of connecting with your audience and there's definitely a
link between those two we talked a bit about how easy it is as a musician or a
dancer to be so absorbed in the technicalities of your craft that you
forget there is been to be a story being told
actors are by necessity more in touch with this and I thought it was
fascinating to hear Fiona Jane talk about approaching songs and how taking
an actor's perspective on the lyrics before thinking about the dots on a page
or the musical technicalities can bring clarity and power to your performance
she gave a couple of examples where the lyrics might be telling one story and
the music another or we're looking purely at the sheet music might result
in you totally missing the point or really struggling with the musical
content she did note that music isn't always necessarily about storytelling in
this way but if it is or it can be this is clearly a really valuable mindset
shift to make this is a simple but powerful thing you can take away from
this episode simply ask yourself with each piece you practice or perform
what's the story being told here and am i conveying that through how I play we
talked about dynamics and rhythm as two aspects of a performance which you can
play with to find that expression but of course there are endless possibilities
as Fiona Jane's gasp of surprise to fill in a rest in a tricky Sondheim rhythm
clearly demonstrated the second theme was connecting with your audience and in
the world of cabaret where you might be just feet away from them or literally
walking among them the importance of this can't be overlooked again for a
musician playing mostly at home absorbed in the music it's easy to forget this
but whether your audience is out in front of you as you play on a stage or
they're surrounding you drinking beers at a cabaret or indeed if you are your
own audience playing music at home don't forget to perform it in a way that will
move the audience and be sure to listen carefully to yourself to make sure
you're having the musical effect you intend to I thought it was interesting
that Jane said listening was the key thing
which helped her to learn to do these two things to tell a story through music
and to connect with her audience it wasn't specific techniques or method she
was taught but the art of listening carefully to what's happening in the
music and opening your mind to be aware of the context and the possibilities and
the meaning beneath it all we talked specifically about cabaret and how
there's a spectrum of what that word means
from burlesque and circus acts through to more classical theater performance it
can also be misused to mean loosely a talent show or a variety show ideally
though it should have a clear theme or narrative that binds it all together and
the examples of Fiona Jane's own shows make that clear I think with one on
Angela Lansbury one about women's history in the 20th century and another
all about the City of London I loved how quick she was to encourage
us all to consider cabaret as a versatile way to express something we're
passionate about it would be easy I think to feel intimidated or overwhelmed
particularly when confronted by the idea of staging a one-person show on a vast
and important topic but hearing her talk about it it's clear that the art form is
far more flexible and accessible than all that she explained how cabaret is
about expressing your own abilities and passions so in a way it's actually far
more accommodating than putting on a performance of somebody else's opus or
musical or show you can focus on the things that resonate with you and draw
from the skills you already have and want to share that means it's much more
within reach to create your own cabaret than many other forms of creative
performance I so enjoyed talking with Fiona Jane and learning more about the
art of cabaret and I genuinely found myself excited about what cabaret can be
both as an audience member and as a performer if you felt similarly inspired
then please do visit her website Fiona Jane Weston comm that's w est o n
Western com sign up for her email list where you'll get info on her
performances around the world and you can also contact her through the website
there if you'd like any input on pursuing cabaret yourself or indeed just
to tell her that you enjoyed this episode thanks for
listening to this episode and stay tuned for our next one where I'll be picking
up on something that Fiona Jane and previous guest Marshall McDonald both
talked about and that's the power and usefulness of thinking in terms of songs
and lyrics even as an instrument player thank you for listening to the
musicality podcast this episode has ended but your musical journey continues
head over to musicality podcast calm where you will find the links and
resources mentioned in this episode as well as bonus content exclusive for
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