namo tassa bhagavato arahato
samma sambuddhassa buddham dhammam sanhgam nammasammi
Dakle, dobrodošli u Birken Beograde
Srednji put - grupa
Poslali ste mi pitanje unapred
me a question ahead of time which i'd
o kome bih voleo da govorim
takođe smo ovde, na čaju u Birkenu,
grupa nezaređenih posetioca u Brkenu
će takođe imati priliku da uživa u Dhamma govoru
i kasije možda možda uradimo
segment pitanja i odgovora. Pitanje koje ste
postavili, pročitaći ga: "Bhante
kad uspijem da smirim moje misli malo
prateći dah u periodima kada
se osjećam loše ili depresivno
bez nekog posebnog razloga,
razloga, postoji u pozadini
neprijatno osećanje koje ostaje uprkos
u mom telu dok to radim
i u nekoj meri je prisutno kroz u većini
momenata svakodnevnog života Kada sam dovoljno sabran
kroz meditaciju moguće je
biti ravnodušan ka ovom osjećanju,
ali šta treba raditi kroz svakodnevni život
kada su ova osjećanja već izazvala mrežu
mučnih misli iz kojih nije lako
izaći? I da li će ova negativna osjećanja
koja se spontano pojavljuju
vremenom nestati kroz dovoljno
uporno posmatranje?
Hvala." Ovo je dobro pitanje
dosta dugačko i siguran sam
da če biti prevedeno za one kojima treba
srpski prevod pitanja
ali ima puno delova za objasniti
veoma je dobro pitanje
a ima odeđene konfuzije
u pitanju, čini mi se. Prva stvar je
po navođenju da ako smirite vaš um
u situacijama kad ste
depresivni i slično
počnete da osećate podložnu
neprijatno osećanje
I primetili ste da
u stvari to osećanje nosite sa sobom
u stvaru u svim ostalim
svakodnevnim momentima u životu, šta se
dešava ovde je da, i posle kažete
do neke mere možeti biti ravnodušni
zbog ovog osećanja
tu nastaje konfuzija
koje ima dosta i
u svetu Budizma danas
čak i u učenjima
Prva stvar koja je zbunjuje je ideja
da možete biti u situaciji puni negativnih emocija
i problema a biti uravnotežen
u isto vreme
da bidete istovremeno uravnoteženi i uznemireni
ili depresivni uravnoteženi i depresivni
tu je u stvari zbrka
ono što je u stvari dešava je da vaša meditacija
nije otišla dovoljno duboko
niste dosegli dovoljno zadubljenje
delimično ste smirili svoj um
i nisto to završili
postoje prepreke, Pali reč
Nivarana
u pitanju je jedna od 5 prepreka
i govorite o depresiji
i slično
čitav taj spektar negativni emocija su
su prepreke zvane zlovolja / averzija
čak je dosada je zlovolja
depresija tuga sva ta osećanja su
negativna, odbijajuća
ne možete da shvatite da ne možete biti
bez ovih problematičnih osećanja
uključujući i vrstu
težine tuge dosade brige nervoze
to je sve prisutno još uvek
u stvari niste ga skroz ispraznili
dovoljno i vaš osećaj
koji definišete kao
jasnoća u meditaciji, jednostavno
nije još uvek dovoljo jasna
kad budete potpuno ostvarili ovu jasnoću
ova osećanja će prestati da postoje, nema osećanja dosade
tuge depresije preosetljivosti i bilo koje
od ovih odbojnih osećanja
ona su se povukla, i morate misliti
da je ideja biti spokojan
jednom shvatite da
ima puno ljudi koji idu tako kroz život
ili prolaze neki period od deset godina
depresivni
ili uznemireni ali nisu svesni toga zato
što su na to navikli i onda jednog dana
desi se nešto u vašem životu
možda neka promena okolnosti
možda susret sa Dhamma učenjem
i meditacjom i da depresila se povuče i vi
odjednom
shvatite da ste bili depresivni u poslednjih deset godina
a da to niste ni znali
zato što je to za vas bilo uobičajeno stanje
to je vaše stanje postojanja i tek kad izađete
iz tog stanja je kad
shvatite Oh, to je bilo to
teško ga je prepoznati kad je uobičajeno
tako da kad počnete da meditirate
na početku dok ulazite u to
počnete da shvatate da
ste depresivni i počnete da primećujete to
vidite i to je momenat koji je
veoma važan da razumete
u mnogim učenjima se govori da jedino treba da posmatrate
svojih stanja uma depresivnih
i svoje tuge želimo da budete
posmatrač svojih osećanja
ravnodušni posmatrač a to
u stvari nije moguće
Ne mogu to tako definisati
ne možete biti uravnoteženi
i u preprekama u isto vreme
psihijatar ili psiholog koji vas sluša
može to da bude
i to i jeste savet za njih
da posmatraju, to je Frojdov komentar
da budu nezavisni posmatrač i da samo slušaju
dok pacijent iznosi svoju
situaciju ali vi niste dve osobe
vi ste samo jedna osoba i to ste vi koji
ste depresivni
i ne možete biti uravnoteženi i depresivni u isto vreme
možda možete imati malo uravnoroženije pogled na to
i to je dobar početak
ali nije dovoljno dobro
morate ići dalje u tom vežbanju
ponovo se vraćati
dahu
na primer dok to osećanje ne iskorenite
uporno osećanje koje imate
dok se potpuno ne oslobodite
i dok ne osetite da je potpuno nestalo
nemojte biti zadovoljni dok ne dobijete
potpuno olakšanje od toga zato što
nijste otišli dovoljno daleko
to se zove čist samadhi (zadubljenje)
meditacija čista samatha
treba da je bazirana na dahu
možemo pričati o drugim objektima meditacije
i probati ih, ali meditacija na dah
i vežbanje dok sva
mala uznemirenost u stomaku ne nestane
kažemo osećanje u telu
a u stvari to osećanje nije u telu
nego je u umu
to je isto nastaje zabuna
što više imate iskustva u meditaciji
sve vam je jasnije da
a ne suprotno
da je um u telu
body is in your mind as you will feel
anxiety is it is a something you feel
apparently in your body but it's
actually an emotional structure it's in
your mind your body is apparently where
you feel but it's not really of the body
it's of the mind even some of the
physical pains that you have in the body
are actually in your mind and you will
get relief from these things if you can
produce enough serenity and lucidity
when I say serenity certainly in English
there's an implication of of quiet but
there's a level there's got to be energy
there too
we don't just this to be dull our this
serenity is has some energy to it as
well it's energized serenity energized
piece but you will you will be surprised
that you're what you thought perhaps was
a physical unpleasant feeling your pain
in your body
starts to go away and dissolve this is
not in your body in your mind and this
underlying anxiety and so forth is also
of the mind people is very hard to get
it sometimes confusing it if you coming
down with the flu you might think oh I'm
just sick with anxiety but turns out
that you're not you're sick with the flu
and sometimes you will think I'm getting
the flu but actually you're anxious or
worried or something in your life is
threatening to unravel and yeah it's
producing welling up of anxiety so
intense that is nauseating
it's actually not as easy and it's it's
very close to spit hard to distinguish
between the flu the nausea of the flu
and the nausea of of worry and fear and
anxiety
these things are they they have they
probably have share the same circuits
know they're of two different sources
one is of is produced by the body and
the other one is produced by the mine
and it's very easy to confuse them
so this is what is happening here you've
got some underlying emotional I'm
emotionally undone treated types of
situation that that needs to be further
purified and refined and eliminated but
temporary it's unlikely that you're
going to just stop this anxiety thing
this is underlying unpleasant feeling
instantly for the rest of your life but
if you could get an hour or a few hours
of freedom from this then you would
realize that it's it's not necessary now
now you may
not be able to keep this up you in in a
kind of ordinary life experience way it
may return but this is why you need
retreat time and a quiet at least us a
single a room where you can go and you
can spend an hour two hours at a time
just Oh allowing this anxiety to settle
and to depart completely because until
it does does your not your meditation is
not complete enough
you really shouldn't put up with this it
your your-your-your treatment here is
not deep enough
it needs to be removed for at least a
period of time and then you will know
what it feels like to be without this
this negative feeling and that's a
beautiful thing in and when this happens
when you manage to do this you should
make some notes to yourself write this
down
you're in a very lucid and happy and
light feeling you have escaped from your
mild dread is in the in the system is
dread you escape this for a while take
careful notes because when it comes back
it will come back and absolutely
convince you it's true and it's real it
will not it that voice is hazardous
it's a delusion is what it is and it's
delusions are utterly you're convinced
in a delusion but you need a message
from your others your previous self that
was happy they don't believe it
it's not true now you have to have just
an automatic thing is that don't don't
don't talk to it don't go into it don't
know
generate ideas from this emotion because
all of the ideas will be tainted by the
emotion don't think through those
emotions so the next thing is to
whenever you get this
wait for your first opportunity to find
it as a quiet room by yourself
sit down and go back to the breath and
take at least 45 minutes until you get
back to this sense of clarity and you
may need that i would say that you know
just to have maintenance doses of this
you're going to have to do this twice a
day you have to find two periods of 45
minutes where you can get that thing to
do not to undo and and that's got to be
consistent and and you need to do that
until it's hard to do without it you
know when soon as you feel that anxiety
coming up you recognize it right away
don't you don't believe the thoughts
that are associated with it you
recognize it right away and then the
first opportunity you have you slip off
to acquire home by yourself and go to
the breath and do this so this is the
strategy and your part way there you're
mystified by why this is still
persistent and will and the the the last
sentence of the question was about i
will enough long enough observation
clear this up if I keep being a mindful
observer of this what will this
eventually be or will i be freed from
this and that's the wrong idea
observation is only one of us a number
of tools it's not in itself is not the
ultimate answer to distance out
observation is
not the only cure it's a beginning so
this needs to be need you need to go
back to the the full immersion in the
breath until this dissolves and it's not
through mere observation and that's
quite often frequently the advice that
is given in in many meditation type
teachings that it's all about just just
observe it and the absorb servation
itself will cause this to disappear but
it doesn't it infrequently observation
and awareness certainly helps at least
you see clearly what the problem is but
it is frequently not enough and you
should not put up with this
the goal here is to free yourself
altogether from negative emotional
states all together at now
normal psychology normative psychology
will not tell you these things they
don't they don't think that it's a
practical advice for ordinary people to
expect to be free of emotional
negativity and emotional hindrances the
psychologist themselves are you know
they're having trouble with the family
they're having this not there and
they're they're saying well that's
that's the way it is but it shouldn't be
paralyzing at least you get out of bed
in the morning and you face it but
that's not good enough for us
that's not a life that's um yes it's
better than being paralyzed in bed in a
deep depression to build a function of
me but to to kind of be riddled at a low
sa ovim smetnjama na niskom nivou
to jednostevno nije dovoljno dobro
mi težimo nečem većem ovde
kažemo ne ne biti normalan
nije dovoljno dobro za nas
želimo ići dalje, i možemo
obični ljudi nikad ne sede i
ne gledaju svoj dah po 45 minuta
nikad, nikad in to ne padne na pamet
to je jako čudno
imamo čudesan proizvod
nekih radoznalih, pametnih i posvećenih ljudi
koji su otkrili ovaj psihološku tehniku
Znate, ti Lutajući mudraci iz Budinog
vremena i kasnije
nisu ništa radili sem ovog
verovali su u duhovni život
imali su po cele celcijati dan
da posmatraju svoj um i isprobavaju stvari
vršili eksperimente na svom umu. Buda je
eksperimentisao s tim i setite se
pre nego što se prosvletio on je
porobao razne stvari, išao
u nepoznate i potencijalno opasne
terirorije i naišao na uvide koje
daje, koji su neosporni, bez mogućnosti greške, sigurni
i omogućuju dobrobit
i nema oko čega da se brine
otkrio je ove tehnike, fenomenalna stvar
sama ideja da upotrebite svoje
sopstevno disanje da fokusirate
svoj um. Ko bi se mogao
toga setiti?
kako se mogao toga setiti?
Tako da ja ohrabrujem našeg
člana koji je postavio pitanje i druge meditante
i učitelje meditacije
ne da samo probaju ovu tehniku
nego da ulože dosta vremena
dane nedelje
mesece i godine, treba istrajati
da bi se videli rezultati
ali vredno je vašeg vremena
i ako je vaše vreme veoma vredno
radite, imate porodice
i takve stvari
vaše vreme je novac
kao i druge društvene angažmane
bez obzira, verujte
ovo vredi više od ičega
ako ne budete vežbali
svakodnevne aktivnosti vam neće
doneti ovu dobrobit
čak i ako zaradite puno novca
nećete postići
ovu vrstu slobode
I to je ključna reč
kad naučimo da iskorenimo
ova, to je takav dar
tako suštinska terapija
da nema ničeg sličnog.
nijedan drugi put kroz život može da se poredi
Srećom, ne preporučujemo
neki skupi lek od
500 dolara inekcija
niti kakvo posebno vežbanje
samo sopstveni um, i dah
i sigurnost da ćete uspeti
u obrabrenje učitelja
da je ovde reč o nečemu
izuzetno važnom
za vašu sreću. Uzgred,
kako to da smo mi toliko motivisam da vam o ovome pričamo
to je zato što smo sami iskusili
olakšanje i kao da smo preležali neku
bolest i dok to sami ne preživite
tu dugu umarajuću bolest, i kad
vidite nekog ko boluje od iste bolesti
istog momenta saosećate sa njim
i želite da mu poručite da znate lek za
tu bolest
motivisani ste zbog toga
što ste na svojoj koži osetili
šta zanči živeti ceo život sa tim
zato svako ko postigne olakšanje
i oseća se boje
želi da
to podeli jer zna
kako je biti zarobljen
kako je ljudski život je kao u klopci
tako se nekako rodite
ne nekako nego stvarno
i smo je pitanje vremena
niko se ne izvuče
u svetu ljudi, sem ovih specijalnih
metoda vežbanja i proučavanja
svog emotivnog sistema da vi zapravo
možete sebe odučiti od toga
tako da to je jako važno
sama forma pitanja je dosta važna
da se raščisti konfuzija
koja je vrlo česta
ne razumemo da
je funkcija ove meditacije na dah
da vas progura kroz sva
podložna negativna osećanja, ostatci
uznemirenosti, depresije i druga negativna stanja
u opšte
tu počinju znaci uspeha
i pretpostavljam mnogi ljudi
kad samo prepolove nivo svojih patnji
to je spektakularno
stvarno dobro
da vam zubobolja bude prepolovljena
i možete da žvaćete na drugu stranu
bar to, ali
to nije dovoljno dobro, da vas ostavim
na pola. Zato samo nastavite
dok ne bude potpuno bez bola
nemojte se primiti na ideju
da ćete živeti sa
smetnjama i biti u
uravnoteženi, u miru sa tim
ravnoteža uma zaista znači sloboda
ona je božanska
kao božanstvena
nije samo neutralnost ili nisam više
nekom određenom bolu. To je savršena sreća
Uravnoteženost uma je čisto zadovoljstvo
izuzetna sreća
to puno ljudi ne razume
i vidi ravnotežu uma kao neku vrstu
ravnodušnosti i apatije
neosetljivost, što nikako nije.
To je najprečišćenija forma
Božanskih osećanja delikatna ravnoteža
savršena lakoća
Još nešto rečeno u pitanju, da se
bez očiglednog razloga oseća ovako.
nema razloga
zašto se oseća
negativno depresivno
nez nekog razloga koristi tu frazu
i to je dobro izraženo
zato što nekad u životu
znate zašto, npr. idete kod zubara
i zato se loše osećam
s druge strane
neki dan ne idete kod nekog zubara
nema ništa loše
kao uzrok
a vi opet osećate užas, brigu
nervozu
bez ikakvog razloga
zdravi ste, svari se fino ravijaju
možda i čak i dobro
a vi u užasu bez razloga
Sad, tu je značaj meditacije
zato što u puno slučaja nema
određenog uzroka
ali mi znamo kako da to iskorenimo
nećemo pribeći analizi
neću vam reći da je
u vašem odnosu
sa ocem kad ste bili mali
tako nećemo nigde stići
nema nekog razloga
za tu sveobuhvatnu opštu
uznemirenost
bezrazložnu,
Nije uzrok u vašem okruženju
ni u vašoj prošlosti, to je samo deo ljudskog iskustva
i to se leči meditacijom
čistom meditacijom smirenja
se leči
zato želim da potstaknem vas koji ste pitali
i sve druge koji slušaju
Tražite više! Vaš novac nazad!
ako vam meditacija ne rasčisti
ovu malu knedlu u stomaku
tražite novac nazad
ne zahtevate dovoljno
od meditacije a trebali bi stići dalje
oslobotiti se tih stvari
napustite sve usputne predmete
istraživanja i prisećanja
kad radite ovu meditaciju smirenja uma
napustite sve druge metode
i radnje, ne treba da
razmatrate i pregledate
uočavate nastajanja i nestajanja
uzdizanja i spuštanja
ne radimo to,
bez suvišnog posla
i distrakcija samo
smirujemo um i videćete
sve se samo rasčišćava lepo
that's the lesson afterwards it will be
not necessary for you to investigate or
reflect or to be pasadena this issue it
will happen automatically you you just
had an experience and you can't stop
thinking about it
you think how did that happen how how
how can i how can I can make that happen
more often how can i dwell in that how
can I keep this up now that's those are
the those are the reflective questions
and they arise naturally the budget
talks about this is one for one who
attains to some samadhi it is not
necessary to think may I have may I
understand
me I get wisdom wisdom and understanding
naturally rises and swells out of
serenity because this serenity is a
moment of health is a moment of true
health and out of that experience
awareness of what true true well-being
and health is rises and swells and I it
really can't rise and swell before you
have that experience so this is a way to
induce it before you understand how to
do things you can you can get a taste of
what it's like to be free
it's a it's a moment is this and it's
not nothing to be dismissed i mean
there's whole schools with their kind of
dismissive this as well they say it's
just temporary
don't get hung up on it don't get
attached to it as a bad advice would
never said anything like that said it is
so important it's such a great and
important thing because it will lead on
you will want to be free all the time
you won't want to go back to that you
will be highly motivated to stay happy
and be happy and you know well and
living it all of the time so this is
this quite natural process so so i think
that that's a an answer to that question
and that's the something to reflect on
and remember and to try and so I mean
we've
took a half an hour to answer that
question so and if there's any Serbians
in the audience that would like to ask
for the question feel free to ask it in
Serbian and then an English perhaps that
person who is the questioner should step
up so that the microphone can pick up
the questioner stick can be heard you
can ask it in English injuries ok let's
do sybian first is on Coby still
eventually saw dependent first next I'll
leave the witches
so how would you can you relate this to
dependent origination yes thank you for
the question
shall I answer in Serbian I cannot
answer in serving well this is Parton
and so people who are practicing dama
and this serbia belgrade group and the
Birkin grouper aware of this term
dependent origination these are fairly
deep supposed to be deep quote uh
teachings but what's important here is
this is part of dependent origination
and where this occurs in dependent
origination is between is is before I
call before midnight midnight is twelve
o'clock the hands are straight-up that
points to something in this teaching
called a V job or ignorance
and that's quite often the beginning of
the clock it starts at midnight and goes
goes around in a circle of 12
lastly of 12 12 aspects which are
dependent on each other but and quite
often people never come across the I the
realization there's something before
midnight
there's something called the five
hindrances evita our ignorance is has
food and the food that is depend depends
on are the five hindrances and so this
is why it's so important that you see
what happens when you can eliminate the
five hindrances from your emotional body
is because it's the these are emotions
not just the mind or the thoughts but
they they're the emotional structure if
you can free yourself for a period time
you will deprive your your ignorance of
its food eat when you feel what it's
like to be without these hindrances you
will put a cause into a system that is
going to have results you are putting in
causes you know you can't just command
yourself to feel in a different way but
if you deprive your your the the kind of
the root causes of your you're suffering
of its food you the suffering will start
to lighten up
it's kind of like a tumor or something
like that this is way modern medicine is
tries to cure the tumor they ask what is
the tumor living on where's it getting
its nutriment
you're healthy body requires nutriment
and also the unhealthy parts the tumors
require this and so this is instead of
just cutting it or something
they asked well what what is it living
on so they their ingenious with all
these micro chemicals and so forth a
they deprive it of its access to food
and then what you have to wish or want
or not you have to wish you want the
tumor just starts to shrink i saw
because it doesn't have nutriment and so
this is what we are doing with when we
replace the hindrances with say the
breath meditation or maybe meta loving
kindness or something when we override
the hindrances we're cutting off the
food supply of our ignorance you know
you've had moments in your life you've
had periods in your life where you have
come in contact with new ideas new
people new ways of doing things that are
a revelation you know you you didn't
know how to do that before you didn't
know that you could say that forced
think that or how to do something even
on a practical basis somebody shows you
how it's done and it's a revelation
it's the it's light is arising and when
light arises it's dispelling your
ignorance and you you remember how you
know times before you knew how to do
these things what it's like to be
stumbling around in the dark and it's
fed by things so you might for instance
you know you might be socially have had
a point a part of your life where you're
socially self-conscious and and worried
about you know how to negotiate with
people and be and be graceful and be
accepted and stuff
that is is ignorance and that is it has
its food and it's the food is the you
know your own inner voice doubting
yourself and accuse you no demeaning
yourself and so these this feeding on
this but if you get taught no no no you
don't think that way and people don't
look at you that way dono we're gonna
cut that out suddenly that inner voice
which is feeding the darkness feeding
your miss mistaken ways has been
deprived and you start to feel
differently this this this change by the
way you don't know when it's going to
happen you once you put the causes in it
must happen
these results must happen you don't have
to worry about results
you just keep your eye on the causes
it's not something that you have to hope
for or wish for chemical yeah you put
these chemicals together and that's all
you have to do you don't have to hope
for the reaction you know it that's what
those chemicals do but you got to know
which chemicals to mix in what
proportion and then it happens it just
the results appear same with baking the
pie you know yet another temperature you
got to know how to put these things what
are the ingredients this after that it's
not about wishing for a good pie the pie
appears because causes have been put in
and it just appears the same with this
sense of lightness and ease if you put
in the causes if you deprive your
ignorance of its food and the big fruit
of the nurses five hindrances anger and
greed agitation sloth heaviness and
doubt these are the five hindrances
which a key you in ignorance so
if you like this is quite famous in in
the world of their media certain media
you're in a certain capsule of media and
all the voices in there are always
saying these distorted sort of versions
of reality you're gonna you're gonna
stay you're going to feeding on this and
it's it's sustaining your ignorance so
you're going to have to turn the damn TV
off right need to start and stop
listening these voices are going to get
results from that you're not you're
going to feel differently because you
haven't been fed your these particular
talking points these particular
agitation points
there's going to be something draining
out of you can be energy is draining and
new possible new ways of thinking are
going to arise the other causes are
course listening to positive domick kind
of things the opposite of the hindrances
instead of listening to voices that
encourage anger and hatred then you
start listening to voices and encourage
loving-kindness serenity voices that
encourage balanced voices that encourage
say if you're if you're fatigued and
depressed that encourage you to
encourage energy so these are the
opposites so now you're getting at the
food of wisdom there so we have first of
all deprived deprive our ignorance of
its of its voices of its of its sources
of food and then once we get that now we
induce nice food good nutrients into the
system and that you just get result you
can't get the results if you don't put
the causes in and you don't have to
worry about the results if you put the
causes in just put causes the dependent
origination but the causes in these are
the results that appear and so one
whoever's listening should find out
about this
what happened the the form of dependent
origination that shows you some of the
causes before a vita or ignorance which
is the normal presentation of this to 12
12 factored dependent origination starts
up at vita but there's four or five
factors before that which almost never
appear but which are really valuable in
fact that's where I focus all my
attention and quite most my teaching is
between what is it that happens before
of Egypt what's that what's the what is
a vita ignorance dependent on what is
the food of ignorance and that happens
to be the 500 says that's where I keep
talking
don't don't just be an observer of the
pipe interested if it's you haven't cut
the food off the food is still you still
feeding your ignorance even though
you're watching it is still being still
feeding your ignorance so thank you for
the question and we will hope for our
questions from Belgrade when you hear
this talk and we will communicate with
you through skype hopefully that's it
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