>The study of Biblical law is a lot more
complicated than you might think.
And here to talk about
the laws in the Bible is Dr. Ken Johnson.
Ken studies in very deep ways in Scripture
going back into history, and I love his new book.
It's called "The Ancient Law of Kings". And Ken welcome
back to Prophecy Watchers. >>Thank you. >"Ancient Law of
Kings", that's got a ring to it. Are we talking about the mosaic law here,
or something else? >>Part of it. Actually we're told in the books of
Samuel that Samuel took the parts of the Torah that are
designed specifically for the king, his ruling
thing that he has to do, things that he can't do, >Mhm. >>put them all in a scroll and
put them up before the Lord. And this became known as the law of kings.
like you might have all of the laws for the priesthood put together and
put them up before the Lord. And this became known as the law of kings. Just
it's the law for the priests. And this is specifically for the kings of
Israel and it's kind of important because it shows us their, the
way they rule, what they can and cannot do, and their court system.
And that's really important for us today because we need to understand there's Jewish courts,
and whats called Noahide Courts and how they work together.
>Now let me read 1 Samuel 10: 25
just sort of to set this
into a Biblical setting. "Then Samuel told the
people the manner of the kingdom and wrote it in a
book". I like that opening sentence, he told the people the manner
of the kingdom which in other words
the formal functioning of the kingdom. >>Mhm. >And wrote
it in a book and laid it up before the Lord and Samuel sent all the people away
every man to his house." Now this was an event
in Jewish history and we don't usually think about this
event, that is to say you're one of the first people that I've known of
who stopped and looked at this thing and by the way wrote a book about
it and only Ken Johnson would do this.
I read the book and it is fascinating, more than fascinating,
it tells a lot about how we should live our lives in Christ, I think.
>>Yeah, and it shows us the system that they had back
then. So many times we look at the Scriptures and we take guesses
as to what the Scripture is talking about. We need to understand that wen we
read the Old Testament and it says 'when you sacrifice an animal do it this way,'
it's only talking to Levitical priests. When it's
saying that when someone does something you execute him this way, you're only
talking to the kings and the Sanhedrin. So you've got to learn what you're talking
about and who it's being referred to, to properly understand
it. And that'll explain the different court systems, and that's very very important for us
today. >And the more I talk to you the more I realize
how important it is. For example when people these days talk of the law
we're thinking of the 613 commandments. >>Mhm.
>And Mount Sinai. And that's the law
but it's really more complicated than that. >>Yeah and even that you have understand that
the 613 commands incorporate what the kings
do and what the priests do. You take just the sacrificial ceremonial law
that everybody agrees the priests did in the temple, that's
400 of those 613 laws. Nobody does them today,
nobody expects you to do them today. >Right. >>And then of course no one has the power to execute
or make judgments like that. So the law actually
dwindles down to around 70 laws that you and I can actually observe.
>Now in Genesis 18:8 for example you have
written "and he took butter and milk" that is,
and this is a note from Genesis 18:8, "and the calf which he had
dressed and set it before them and stood by them under the tree and they did eat.
Interesting. Butter, milk, and meat. >>Mhm.
>In a meal. >>Yeah this is Abraham sitting down with the
angels eating non-kosher food. Of course this is before the law of Moses was
given. >Right. >>And we can see many instances in the Old Testament where they
ate non-Kosher food. >So proceeding from
there, we know what Kosher means, that
is the laws of Jewish daily living
and right up to the present day orthodox Jews keep kosher and two
sets of dishes in the kitchen, the set that are dairy and the set that are meat
and they have lots of dietary laws
which we know very little about
because it's a very complex thing that is done to keep the
dietary laws. But here
when you talk about the ancient law of kings, well you're
talking about something else. And let's make that very clear to our audience.
>>Yeah the whole concept is that the
Lord took humanity, gave them laws. They're called Adamic laws,
it didn't work out, the world was destroyed. So then they were
instituted as the Noadic laws or the laws of Noah.
And that's mentioned in Genesis chapter 9. And that's the continuation you're
supposed to establish. Court systems, wait for the Messiah,
observe morality. And what happens is, each nation can add
to those laws but not take away from them, they're not supposed to.
And the prophecies were that God would take a special group of
people and add a lot of laws to them to make them a special nation and the Messiah would come
through them. And like Paul said those laws were added until MEssiah
would come and then they would be done away with. He makes that
very clear in Galatians and in Hebrews. The fact that Jesus is is a Melchizedekian
priest and if the priesthood is changed the law is
changed which means the covenant is changed so he makes that very very clear. >Now
you have a note here on Genesis 9:3, "you can eat any
living creature if it's killed and cooked properly". >>Right, you're not supposed to eat
the blood. >Okay. >>And then in Deuteronomy 14:21 "Jews cannot
eat non-kosher food but then give it to a Gentile".
And by the way this would be determined in the city gates
so you have then one set of laws, another set of laws for Gentiles,
the Noahide laws that you just mentioned.
And I don't think we think of this when we think of biblical society.
As modern Gentile Christians we usually
don't delve into that kind of ritual behavior. >>Right
but we need to to understand exactly what we're talking about. So there's actually--
and we're not trying to make two sets of laws. There's actually multi sets inside the
one set of laws. Israel had laws specifically for priests, for
kings, for men, for women. When you get pregnant you
have to give a special sacrifice if you're a Jewish lady. Men don't do that.
>Mhm. >>And then there's Noahide courts. The one you mentioned here,
Deuteronomy 14:21 it says that if it's not slaughtered
properly, accidentally then a Jew can't eat it. But it says in the King
James says you can give it to a stranger or sell it to an alien.
And this is where we need to look closer at the Hebrew because it actually says 'sell it to
ger--or give it to ger or sell it to a nekar.'
Now the ger is in the city gates.
So literally what this is saying is you can sell it to a Gentile or
someone who is a Noahide, a brother who lives with you that
doesn't practice kosher food or other laws. You can give it
to one of the Noahide judges, someone that sits in the gate of the city
is a judge and he would be responsible for giving to the poor.
So the poor Jews can't eat this because it's not kosher but the poor Gentiles can.
So it shows you, it gives you a glimpse into the court
systems of the Noahides and all those.
>Now I think I have a fairly good image of where you
went in this book. And the thing that I would like to convey to our audience today
is the fact that Christians are
not under law today. >>Mhm. >We are
essentially living under grace
and a lot of people say 'hold it hold it hold it. That's
too indistinct, too indeterminate. What do you mean by grace?'
Isn't there something we have to do, isn't there some kind of law
we have to keep?' and you've studied this now so how would you answer that
question? >>Well we do have to keep one particular law, believe in Christ.
>Yes, indeed. >>That's through grace. But the interesting thing
about this is you have to go back and you look at this. This is nothing new that Paul was even
talking about. When you look at the Sadducees the Pharisees and the Essenes
and you see from their writings from the Dead Sea scrolls from the Tulmud
the early church fathers, everybody taught Noahide law and the fact
that Gentiles never were under Noahide laws. The Dead Sea
scrolls even go so far as to say that this is what caused
the apostasy back int he 1st century B.C.
And it started actually a civil war between the Sadducees and the Pharisees. And by the time Jesus
came they were all confused thinking you're supposed to observe
for temple rituals. They asked why do disciples not wash their hands
before they eat? Because they're not priests. They're not supposed to.
And they're simple. If you understand the law and the fact that
they apostatize. So it's really kind of important for us
because all groups today including orthodox Jews and
Messianic Jews will agree with that theology. But there's a group
of people called 'Hebrew roots' and some of those are people like
you and I that want to study Jewish rituals, study the prophecies make sure we
understand. And then there are the hyper Hebrew roots people that think they're
supposed to follow all these laws. You know you wear tzitzit,
you have yamakas, you have tefillin and things like
that. Those were specifically for the priests. And according to
the law Gentiles are forbidden to wear those. So unless
you have been circumcised according to the law of Moses and that's not the
same as what we have here in the United States, you're actually forbidden to wear those.
What makes it interesting then is that you would be okay
to practice these and look at these things if the laws had
been done away with, but not if they're still existent. >Now strictly speaking
you couldn't keep the law of Moses today. >>Right. >Because there's
no tabernacle and no system of priest to offer up
sacrifices and so forth.
And of course those of us who have studied the Bible understand that these rituals were very
complex and they were seasonal, they followed the calendar,
Passover, Rosh Hahshana and the fall festivals and
so forth, Sukkot. And in many many
ways much of the law requires a formal
system to be in place with a priesthood doing service in
a tabernacle or a temple.
So let's begin there and talk about the law as the Jews
keep it today, and then what we learn from
the Noahide laws, the law of kings. >>Well the Jews
keep the traditions as passed down by their elders and so
the orthodox Jews we would probably say are what's left over from the Pharisees.
What we see in the Dead Sea Scrolls are what's left over from the Essenes
and it's pretty straightforward when you look at it. For instance in
Acts 21 when Paul goes before James,
James says that they're thinking you're saying Jews should forsake the law. So I
want you to do the Nazirite vow, shave your head, pay for you and a couple of other
guys to do it so that we can see that you're not anti-Moses
and then we will remind them that we wrote a letter saying that
the Gentiles are forbidden to do such,
only stay away from meats, things strangled, fornication, and idols.
So you have this all the way through the system and Paul
says you're not to allow yourself to be circumcised because
you'd be a debtor to do the whole law. You would have converted to
Judaism and you're not actually supposed to do that.
>Now what would Paul have thought about the contents
of your book, speaking about the Noahide law, the history of the way the Jews
kept laws and various stages coming forward
from Abraham and then to the days of Moses.
What would the apostles
think about this? >> I think they would totally agree with it, you have an
example of Peter for instance. The tradition is that you're not supposed to enter a
Gentile's house and he had that in the back of his mind. But the Lord showed
him through that dream of the sheet that Gentiles are not necessarily unclean
and he goes to the house of Cornelius and preaches the gospel
and they become Christians. And it says that Cornelius was a god fearer.
And this should be obvious. A God-fearer is a Noahide, someone who loves the
Lord, who doesn't practice idols. There's no reason not to fellowship with
brothers. And so but that tradition had got into the idea that all
Gentiles were corrupt. And then another example would be Paul
when he said this rule I set down in all of the churches,
if you're circumcised don't seek uncircumcision. If you
are uncircumcised don't seek circumcision. So in other words if you're a gentile
remain a Gentile, live a Gentile lifestyle. If you're Jewish, remain Jewish
live a Jewish lifestyle and be brothers like
you're always supposed to be. The only problem would be is if a Jew marries
a Gentile, then you have to decide what kind of a family you're going to raise.
>You know there are a couple of things that really stand out. Number one,
culturally Cornelius was a Centurion. >>Mhm.
>Would have been a wealthy man in Caesarea which was kind of a
beautiful seaside colony,
and he was called an Italian, and his household,
I think that may be the only place in the Bible that speaks of Italians.
And it says he's a Centurion of the band called the Italian Band.
Well we all know how the Italians eat.
Any kind of seafood you can possibly think of whether it happens to be
lobsters or crab or shellfish of various
kinds. All of which would be not just
non-kosher but really nonkosher types of food.
Peter was instructed to go to Cornelius' house and
even given a vision with a sheet full of all kinds of
non-kosher food and the voice from Heaven tells
Peter to butcher these things and to eat them.
And this being in the Bible,
and basically in the context of your
book really kind of opened my eyes a bit
about what we are to do to please the Lord.
>>Yeah, I think that's a really good example. You talk
about the covenants for instance. A lot of people will point out
that Jeremiah 31 says 'I'm going to make a new covenant with
Israel not like the one I made on Mount Sinai'. >Hm.
>>But if you go back to Exodus where they made the covenant on Mount Sinai Moses says the same
thing. This is a covenant between you here today and God
and it's not like the covenant I made with the patriarchs. So you
can see the concept of the Noahide law, the Mosaic law being added,
and then a new covenant which we know is the New Testament.
>And if you look carefully, and this is what Ken specializes in doing,
he looks carefully, he does. You find that
there is a very discernible and very distinguishable division
between one kind of law and another kind of law
and we should make that distinction. >>Yeah we're always supposed to. And if we
were Gentiles that were both Jewish believers or Gentile believers,
back in the 1st century we would have all that culture behind us
and we would know instinctively. But know we're 2,000 years separated
and we're not sure what law goes to what or tradition.
>We are talking with Ken Johnson, Dr. Ken Johnson
if you want to be formal. And he's going to be by the way
speaking at our upcoming Second Annual Blessed Hope Prophecy
Forum October 12-14th. Recently I
made a promotional which I'd like to show you right now.
---->Hi, Gary Stearman with a very special announcement from
Prophecy Watchers! Bob Ulrich, we've got a lot to talk about. >>We
do. It's an exciting time to be alive as the prophecies of the Bible come to
pass right before our eyes. Have a big conference coming up October 12th
through 14th. We're going to be celebrating the 70th anniversary of
Israel at the Second Annual Blessed Hope Prophecy Forum at the
Embassy Suites Hotel in Norman, Oklahoma
October 12th-14th. You can register for the event at Prophecywatchers.com,
or call us toll-free at the phone number on your screen. >And Bob
we have the top speakers in the world of Bible
prophecy. >>A conference like no other, 32
speakers: L.A. Marzulli, Bill Salus, Jan Markell, David Reagan,
Mark Hitchcock, Terry James, the names just go on and on. 32 speakers
in one event. >Not much time! You need to register
now. Gary Stearman for Prophecy Watchers saying 'see you there!'-----
>And having seen that, I think you're going to
add a lot to our presentations this
fall, this October, because things like this
really are of interest for one reason: people
want to know how to live Godly lives, and
essentially--but they don't want to be burdened
with things they don't understand. And there's a lot of
this in the history of the church, that is to say the church demanding that
you do such and such in order to be considered 'godly'
in one way or another. >>Right. >And I think this book speaks to that.
>>I think it does. And the people, again
if you look at your denominations and the different groups that are around, everyone
agrees with this interpretation of the law except for certain Hebrew roots
movements groups and certain Sabbatarian cults inside of Christianity.
They think that it's absolutely necessary, your salvation hinges upon you
doing Jewish rituals. But I think the thing we need to look at
is if you're kind of opposed to this or you think it might be wrong
just understand that this is Essene doctrine, it's taught by the Essenes
in the Dead Sea scrolls. So you have to decide if you're going to be Pharisitical
or Essene or Sadducee. And actually you find out they all teach the
same but it's something to look at very carefully. >Let's go
back a minute. I was kind of interested a minute ago when you were talking about
the centuries leading up to Jesus' appearance
in the 1st century. That there had been a series of apostasies in the 1st century
leading up to that. And so by the time Jesus came
there were distinct arguments about what really
was the law, how it should be kept. Of course we read about the Pharisees, the Sadducees,
you've told us a lot about the Essenes
in some of your writings. And so that was
an interesting environment into which the Lord
came. >>yeah, actually when you look at it it's interesting because
if you go to seminary they'll teach you that there's the Old Testament and there's
the 400 silent years and then there's the New Testament. >Uhuh. >>And you look at Jews
being Jews, there are no sects of Jews. It's just Jews. Then you
get to the New Testament and all of a sudden here's Pharisees,
Sadducees, Essenes, Zealots, all sorts of groups.
And how did that happen? >Right. >You go back to the
Dead Sea Scrolls, there are certain scrolls that have only been public for about 20 years.
And when you pull all those together they tell you the history
of those 400 silent years. And basically it started off with everybody being
Jewish, understanding Noahide lower court system. But
when things got corrupted after in Antiochus Epiphanes
they decided to start segregating and one group said we're going to follow whatever the king
says, those were Sadducees. The separatists were called
Pharisees tried to keep the law as it was. And one thing led to another and there was
a corruption from outside influences, and this is all documented very
clearly in the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Essenes decided to pull
away from the whole thing because they say they followed the law and
the Old Testament the way they're supposed to. >Now when you wrote your book what
source material did you use chiefly to develop this? >>The law
of kings is actually--the complete system is mentioned by Maimonides,
that's 12th century. But it's actually mentioned by many
other documents like the Seder Olam back in 169 AD,
the book of Gad the Seer which is 1,000 BC.
It's mentioned in the Tulmud, by the church fathers, several other things.
But the actual Dead Sea Scrolls go on and complete the history
of how it got corrupted. And it's fascinating, once you look at that
and you think that might be the real case you go through and you look at the New Testament, you can
see how those things were correct and how Jesus responded to them.
>I want to stop here just a minute and hold up a few
of Ken's books. We've got the Ken Johnson library
here, at Prophecy Watchers. I'm holding seven books, "The Ancient Law of
Kings" would be the 8th book here. And what
--one thing I want to say, people have found
your books very readable. They're very popular
even though they address subjects that might sound dry. Maybe you're
sitting out there and saying, 'eh what do I know about the ancient law of kings?
What does it have to do with me?' Believe me, the way Ken writes
these things you'll discover it has a lot to do with the way you think
about salvation, sanctification, your life in Christ,
your Christian walk, it really effects the way you live your
life. And I think that's your gift, taking these dark
and hidden truths out of these old texts and bringing them
into readable language. And by the way your books are always readable,
I love that. >>Great, thank you. >So let's talk about the
first seven here. And you've been writing these for how long?
>>Probably around 11 years. >And what's your
goal? What has evolved in your life since you started
writing? >>I just want to let people know what's out there,
I started writing commentaries on Bible books
basically information on Bible prophecy, current events, and then I started
delving into the Dead Sea Scrolls and other scrolls and I thought those are necessary
for us to know about. >Well we have "The Ancient
Messianic Festivals", "The Ancient Book of Gad the Seer"
"The Ancient Book of Enoch", "The Ancient Apocalypse of Ezra",
"The Ancient Testaments of the Patriarchs", "The End Times
by the Ancient Church Fathers", that one is fascinating. "The Ancient Language
of Dreams". And that of course has to do
with prophecies and prophetic fulfillment. And finally the new
book by Ken Johnson, "The Ancient Law of Kings".
And we're offering what we're calling
The Ancient Hebrew Prophets Package, this would be 8 books for your gift
of $100, free shipping anywhere in the United States.
Go to prophecywatchers.com, click on the online bookstore,
scroll down. You'll find Ken's name there, you'll find the titles
of his books, and you'll find The Ancient Hebrew Prophets Package.
But for a gift of $20 if you want to read his
latest book, you maybe have all the others, free shipping
anywhere in the United States, this book
"The Ancient Law of Kings" the one we're talking about now, which is
a Ken Johnson I think specialty, looking
in sort of dark corners, dusting things off, bringing them out where
we can all look at them and read them. I'm glad there's somebody like you doing this
because I don't think I would do it! Or would have the talent
to know where to look. So let's
kind of summarize, what would be the value for
today's Christian of reading this book, and what did
you find as you put it together? >>Basically
the idea, again that the law of the Jews is for the
Jews, and it's subdivided into the law of
priests, law of kings, law for the men, for the women, for the Gentiles.
And when you understand that, you begin to understand some of the controversy
in the Old Testament, the New Testament, and among groups today that think you should
keep law, should not keep the law. And it's actually very clear
just in the Old Testament, but this makes it very very clear also
that the Gentiles are not supposed to keep
Jewish law, Mosaic law; but are supposed to
keep Noahide. And then when Paul pulls it all together and says now there's now no more
Noahide, ger, or Jew, we're all one in Christ,
if you become a follower of Messiah we have now Christian law
which is very specifically spelled out in the New Testament. So to get
people to a place where they don't think they have to do things
that they're not supposed to, is the goal for that book. >Now most people would not call
Christianity Christian law, the term you just used.
But in effect it's a set of precepts
>>Mhm. >that we have in Christ that were generated
by the apostles. >>Yeah, well actually by that I mean for instance
Paul will say 'you can't be a Christian and murder and steal
and do all these things. So they're all certain laws, but they're just moral
laws, or like our forefathers would say self-evident laws. >Not behavioral
laws, per say that would regulate daily behavior how
I cut my hair, for example, the length of my beard. >>Yeah, no ceremonial
laws. >No ceremonial law. Those things
are done away with, however we do have
a set of Christian principles that are very highly
developed. And they go back to the ancient law of kings.
>>Mhm, they do. >So that's kind of what I got out of
reading Ken's book. It's most fascinating. As I say,
nobody does it like Ken Johnson. First of all,
nobody would have the patience to look where you look or the talent to
know exactly what the sources might be, and secondly
it takes a lot of discipline to put these thing together so we really appreciate
you for showing your work. >>Yeah, thank you. >Anything else? We've got just a few seconds
left, anything else you'd like to tell people? >>Well I will be at the prophecy
conference this fall, >Right. >>and I'm currently working on more
things from the Dead Sea Scrolls trying to pull together the history of the school of the prophets
by Elijah, so that should be interesting. >School of the prophets,
by Elijah. Wow. Interesting! And by the way, that's
kind of tantalizing prophetic them in and of itself.
>>It is. >You know Elijah is coming one of these days
according to Scripture. He's going to come back, >>Maybe soon.
>Maybe soon. We hope soon. Ken Johnson, thanks a lot.
We appreciate talking with you. >>Thank you. >I'm Gary Stearman. Hey,
you keep watching...we are!
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