Today we have with us a man who needs no introduction as I would invite the crowd
I will dive right into the questions shall I say something but shortly well
the question is definitely there in a lot of people's mind why a moment like
this how this came about in the last 36 years that I have been active with
people there's one constant refrain from people thousands of people have asked me
the same question that is that grew when I was 20 where the hell were you you
came when I'm 60 if you came when I was 20 I would have done this that and
something else I've been hearing this from so many people continuously so we
thought we will step out and talk to people who are below 25 years of age and
that's why you turn truth and the fundamental of this is see what we call
his life this life you may have so many ideas about it so many emotions and
thoughts about it but essentially this life is a certain combination of time
and energy we have a certain amount of time and a certain amount of energy time
is rolling away for all of us if you sit here it rolls if you do something it
rolls if you sleep it rolls if you're awake it rolls whether in wakefulness or
sleep in work or laziness with your way in dynamism or lethargy time is rolling
for everybody in Tamil there's the term that is used for death is kala mai
tongue it means his time got over such an appropriate description after all
that's all that happened time got over so time is getting over for all of us as
we sit here it's not the clock which is ticking it is our life
which is ticking away you cannot control it you can't slow it down you can't roll
it back no choice about this it rolls forward for all of us no matter what we
do what we don't do but energy is something we can manage when we talk
about energy this segment of life that we refer to as youth when you are in
this segment of life your energy as is at its highest exuberance most youth do
not understand this they think they are going to be like this for always you
just have to pay attention to the old people they were not born like this they
were also used slowly
you know volume gets little down not me
otherwise slowly the intensity of energy volume gets lower and lower if you just
observe how they sit and stand and walk you must know you're going to get there
very fast actually so when your energies are at their peak if only if you brought
little more clarity and balance into your system well this energy could work
for you in a miraculous way this exuberant energy can do wonders in human
life or it can cause disasters in human life
the same enthusiasm and energy has taken people's lives
I am saying this because I grew up in 60s and 70s by the time they were 35 at
least 12 for sure other - I think they also went by that way 12 to 14 people
that I knew and who were dear to me they all died before their 35 years of age
simply somebody overdose somebody drank themselves to death somebody killed
themselves on the motorcycles somebody fell off the rocks all kinds of things
it is the same exuberant energy which got them into these things the same
example and if it had a little more balance and
clarity they could have done wonders but unfortunately this happened it's not
only in terms of death it happens in so many different ways
disaster is not always in the form of death life didn't take off that itself
is a disaster so when you look at this see every human
being every individual has an innate genius within them the question is only
will they find an appropriate ambience within themselves and around themselves
to unfold their genius this unfortunately in this world does not
even happen to 1% of the population this is my estimate in your institution if it
is more you must tell me but generally in the larger population not even 1% of
humanity manages to unfold their genius simply because concerns of earning a
living survival some nonsense takes them up they fall in love
something happens either outside situations don't cooperate or inside
situations don't cooperate so what I am looking at is if only if we can increase
this percentage let's say in this generation from 1% to 10% we will have a
phenomenal world because you cannot create a great world or a great nation
or a great society you can only create great human beings if you create great
human beings great societies and nations and world will happen it's a consequence
we cannot create the consequence but the source of this is human genius must
unfold only then you will find human beings functioning at a level well
beyond what we normally consider as normal it should become normal it's it's
normal for a flowering plant to blossom similarly it must be normal for a human
being to unfold and blossom their genius because it's in it it is only looking
for an atmosphere where it is possible to do that can we create that in the
society maybe it's a long way off but can we at least create it within
ourselves that if you're willing is possible
in this generation that's why I'm here with you let's see what we can do that
in essence answers the first question which we had planned for you so but what
we have tried to do is we have tried to so be a representative of the student
community and we have taken their questions and actually tried to divide
them in themes and several themes have cropped up and we received theme wise
during this conversation the first theme that cropped up was about ethics and
morality and even though this wasn't the exact formulation of the problem there
were versions of this and the version was that if Sadhguru could go back into
the past not because of yogic past but if there
was a time machine and with foresight a bit knowledge about what happened during
the world war ii would Sadhguru kill baby Hitler is the first question that
co-op problem would I kill the baby Hitler knowing that six million Jews
could be saved say yeah Adolf Hitler is a consequence is not the cause of World
War two in the sense there has been centuries of hatred about the Jewish
people it's not it did not suddenly crop up because of Arab Hitler well he used
it politically to do all kinds of things that's a different matter but this
hatred has been endemic in the population not for one or two years for
literally eighteen centuries it's been alive now adult Hitler became a
representative of that hatred and he consolidated that hatred organized it in
such a way that it became a mega disaster but the disaster has been
unfolding for a long time forever people have been accusing Jews of being a Jesus
killer and wanting to get them in so many ways they've been persecuted not in
one way every generation has small-scale persecutions happening in various
societies across the that part of the world at least not here
so when adult Hitler came he saw what you are accusing of adult Hitler his
competence everybody had the same hatred he organized his hatred into a very
competent results-oriented thing any number of human beings have come who are
as much tyrannical as a dull fiddler fortunately they were not as competent I
don't know if he studied in I am because his organizing skills are extraordinary
you have to look at that if only if he had organized this not against a
particular community but for the well-being of the world
what a fantastic organizer he is so his competence is what we'll be talking
about hatred was there in the society he organized it and made it into an end
result of a disastrous kind see in every generation there are tyrants fortunately
they are important fortunately they are everywhere don't think they are not
there every day I am meeting thousands of people you should see what kind of
mindsets people have how much endemic hatred they have for somebody that they
do not even know including me people who have never met me people who have not
had a word with me they have so much hatred so what's the problem you not
even seen me at but no so this endemic hatred is bred in the society in the
form of religion in our society in the form of caste creed ideologies see
everybody is focused in adult Hitler I am NOT trying to belittle what he did he
is one man so many people caused pain to each other but he is one man who
organized human pain like nobody else he made a machine out of it in in a real
organized way like an industry he did not do killing
just for killing sake he made a killing industry you know proper industry
actually they set up factories of death so never before nobody organized it but
don't ever think nobody had those intentions
nobody had those same emotions they had but this man organized so would you kill
the baby Hitler no it wouldn't help because another guy maybe with
competence would have come up you never know so what we need to work at is we
need to work at as I was telling you a culture of peace this is important we
never worked at culture of peace only when he explodes in our face we want it
solved otherwise we're just going about our business the way we are driving on
the street is violent alright he's not fast
it's just violent I wish they were driving fast if they were skilled they
would be driving fast they are unskilled and their violent drivers violence means
you you don't mind if somebody gets hurt isn't it hello violence need not
necessarily mean I'm going to throw a projectile at you I don't care if we go
get hurt this is violence isn't it so this is all
over the place we need to see culture is not something that you can build
overnight slogans you can build overnight you can do anti demonstrations
overnight you cannot build a culture overnight it takes a lifetime of
dedication to bring that about nobody has shown that dedication
everybody wants immediate solution when something explodes everybody will scream
once it's over they go about their business so it is very important I want
you to understand adult Hitler's can be born just about anywhere just about
anywhere because the culture of disliking and hating other people who
are not like you is so rooted in the society it's just a question of he must
do an MBA here I'm giving compliments to the institution it's not
completely edit but the main issue over here so is that you tackle the root
causes rather than manifestations of the yes exactly so consequences cannot be
dealt with it is the process we need to address so the youth of today have a bit
of confusion about the whole spirituality we believe that the basic
tenants of humanity like justice equality fraternity should be enough to
be a better human being and if you are a better human being and if you are happy
by yourself does there is there really room for spirituality please repeat
those three values justice equality and fraternity justice equality and
fraternity I want you to understand this these are wonderful thoughts but with
horrible results on this planet because people who talked about this
well Marx spoke about it angle spoke about it Joseph Stalin spoke
about it but Joseph Stalin killed three times more than adequately am I correct
on the number or your disputing up not disputing the number will come to that I
am saying you can carry any number of values but you will see people will
learn to subvert their own values in so many ways depending upon how much
pressure is put upon them so instead of morality instead of this kind of moral
structures it is better that we fall back on our humanity which is more
reliable and always there if we want to fall back in humanity if you'll give me
a couple of minutes ok so what is it that is setting as a part why is it I
must think that there must be fraternity because first of all I think you and me
are separate now I am trying to build Brotherhood isn't it so first of all I
think the way you are is whatever now I am trying to include you but for
how did you come to this you have come to this simply with little bit of
accumulated information in your mind the data that you carry which is your
thought process your entire thought process is coming from limited data now
this data is the feed for your intellect because you understand somewhere maybe
not articulated in your own mind but you fundamentally understand the nature of
your intellect is it will always make you under separate because that is the
nature of the intellect only because the intellect is functioning you have a
discriminatory mind that you can discriminate that is him this is me
otherwise you won't be able to discriminate the other dimensions of
intelligence which is in human being are all unifying in nature instead of going
into those dimensions of intelligence and functioning you are using your
intellect if I ask you a simple question would you like your intellect to be
sharp or blunt you must choose I'm going to bless you right now you want it sharp
because intellect is a cutting instrument so you use a knife to put
people together you will leave it in tatters believe me you use a knife to
cut things that's fine to handle material aspects of life you use a knife
because you want distinction when you handle people if you use a knife maybe
with the best intention you will still cause enormous damage
this is the unfortunate manifestation of the principle of communism there is no
more compassionate expression of humanity than communism do you
understand you can you can tell there is actually in philosophy there is no more
compassionate expression because everybody according to their need not
according to their greed is a fantastic idea but wherever they try to implement
it what happened was enormous violence simply because it's an intellectual idea
and the intellect can only cut if you try to sue with a knife everything
becomes status this has happened repeat again and again but there's another
dimension of intelligence within you I will skip in yoga we look at human
intelligence as sixteen parts I will not go into it the last part of intelligence
is referred to as Chitra what this means is an intelligence without an iota of
memory in it why is this important east see you are who you are and I am Who I
am only because of the memory that you contain within you isn't it you are
separate I am separate how that is one silo of memory this is another silo of
memory when I say memory it's not just what you remember and don't remember
there is evolutionary memory there is genetic memory there is karmic memory
this varieties of memory the very way you sit and stand is because of your
memory yes the very way the shape of your nose is the tone of your skin
everything is memory so what you call as myself is a product of a huge amount of
memory memory allows you to do many things in the world but at the same time
memory is also my boundary this is my friend this is somebody I do not know
how because I remember this one I don't remember this one it's memory which
decides who is mine and who is not mine what is mine and what is not mine so
there is an intelligence within you which is beyond memory if only if you
dip into that dimension of intelligence in your experience all boundaries have
disappeared in the sense if you sit here right now in this hall and even for one
moment even for one single moment if you experienced all these people just as the
way we experienced the ten fingers of your hand as a part of yourself after
that do I have to tell you morality fraternity equality this that when you
see somebody as a part of yourself when you have known somebody as a part of
yourself there is no need for any principle or any morality this is what
spiritual process means spiritual process means you begin to experience
something beyond your physical nature why this is important is physical nature
can only happen in defined boundaries without a defined boundary there is no
physical process isn't it this is my body
that is your body how come because this is a boundary now this is my mind and
that's your mind because there is a boundary but there is a dimension of
intelligence which has no memory if you enter that dimension you will see that
there is no memory because there is no memory but still your alert and alive
because of that there is no boundaries this can be explained in so many ways
see if you do something very intense if you do like this and just hold it like
this you can check the experiment just for 20 seconds vigorously rub your hands
together with your eyes closed hold it about 3 inches away from each other
there's something happening between your two hands or you didn't try that you
don't believe in experimentation oh that's fine did you did you see
something between your hands there is a certain energy why I am saying this is
right now your definition of this is me and that is you has come like this it is
see how do you know can we do another experiment ok your right hand it's that
your left hand is that you yes yes touch the chair on which you're sitting is
that you how do you know this what tells you this is me and this is not me no no
no there is sensation here there no sensation here isn't it essentially it
is the boundaries of sensation which tells you what is mean what is not me
what spiritual process means is you get your life energies into such an
exuberance that your sensory body expands if your sensitive body expands
everything with within the boundaries of your sensation you experience it as
myself right now this water and this tumbler is definitely not you but if you
drink it it becomes you isn't it this many kilograms how did it come something
that was outside now is within the boundaries of your sensation now if all
these people or within the boundaries of your sensation even for a moment if you
actually experience as a part of myself after that do you
need morality I guess the main part was that the question I think got lost in
translation because in essence you guys were both talking about the same things
I thought you were speaking he was picking an English wasn't true but
translation is not always just language it's also intent okay he also implied
that if people start looking at other people not as other people but as humans
but how will you do it according to me the knowledge that we are all humans is
essential to us see it between human beings that this problem happens we all
know we're humans if you were a tiger I wouldn't fight with you
in essen again in essence we are seeing literally the same thing which is coming
from different fronts we are all humans the fact that certain people have not
acknowledged that we are humans now is the cause of this problem I don't think
they have not acknowledged they have acknowledged and repaid different kinds
of humans not really within a family there's a lot of fight going on
brotherhood fraternity equality but more more clashes are happening within the
four walls of a home in a family then between India and Pakistan believe me
and no you your little frustrated you can ask me more questions
huh I'm generally not frustrated by this it's just that the example which you
have just given that there are more clashes which happen is it happening or
not then outside is in essence first of all it is not essentially fact-based
because it doesn't take into a it's as one an assumption of how many clashes
occur between India and Pakistan the second is it assumes that clashes which
are occurring within the family are of the same magnitude the magnitude is
different because we are not armed within the family and we have no intent
to kill alright we have no intent to kill
but clashes are happening isn't it emotions are happening of they're
happening or if you believe of everyone as your extension of your spiritual
being what clashes also not say spirituality
is not a belief that is where you're wrong
so you think spirituality is one more belief like your values your values are
made up by you spiritual process is not made up by if you sit here and breathe
what we exhale the trees are inhaling what the trees are exhaling or inhaling
is it the fact or is it my idea it's a fact
now this fact is only intellectual but experientially if you sit here and
actually experience one half of my lungs is actually hanging out there which is
the fact if you experience this after that do I have to tell you don't cut the
tree say there is there is human thought this this whole thing comes from the
fundamental that we have made human thought far more important than the
reality of the existence human thought is very small because it is just a
consequence of little data that you have in your head isn't it all the thought
that you have he is coming from the data that you have gathered whatever data I
have gathered whatever you have gathered whatever all of them put together have
gathered is still a miniscule in this existence is it so hello you may be a
PhD but I'm asking you is it a mini school so with such a small
piece of information you are coming to conclusions which is not right
that is why spiritual process means you don't attach any importance to your own
thought and emotion you see how to dip into those dimensions of humanity which
is not defined by boundaries of your physical nature this is what spiritual
process means spiritual process is not a belief system it is not an ideology it
is not a philosophy when your experience of life is little more than your
physical nature then you use this corrupted word spirituality while
answering the last question you talked about memory right so my question is if
all we are doing so so what's your view should we have an all income and
compassing memory or should it be a memory less being you know because if we
are a memory less being then there's no concept of future and past there's no
relation between actions and consequences talk about experience that
doesn't exist now how does this idea come memoryless being you talked about
Sita that has I said memory less intelligence and intelligence which is
beyond memory I did not talk about a memory less being because if there is no
memory there is no individuality of any kind
isn't it so that's what the point is to be an individual memory is important but
because we have memory issues not memories important memory is the basis
of your individual nature it is individualism important like being the
individualism means your trying trying to make a religion out of yourself
there is no individualism it is a privilege though we are part of
everything here if we don't understand this we'll get the point when people
bury us that we are a part of everything right now we stand up see your existence
here is like a pop up on your computer computer
screen you pop up for two minutes and you go okay in the life of this planet
you were just a small pop up you'll go poop and poop that's it you and me right
now when we are here we think we are this but all this countless number of
people who came before us you think they were idiots
they were also like you and me big people but all topsoil now isn't it so
anyway we have no individuality individuality is an assumed thing this
is a great privilege creation is given as though we are part of everything we
are allowed to experience life as an individual how fantastic it is we are
greatly greatly you know grateful to this process because it allows a little
bit of individuality for this fewer years that we here these years in the
life of this planet is really nothing two seconds they calculate something
after the billion years whatever it's been here
so if two-second pop-up assumes individualism what is that it's a
privilege that we have some sense of individual experience otherwise we would
have no experience if there was no memory ok so if you dip into cheetah
does my individuality completely vanish no when you dip into it it gives you an
experience beyond the boundaries of your individuality because of the sea you are
in this country or an Indian but can you travel out if you travel out you are not
an Indian anymore still am you still not just the same way I am still the same
person but I am no more limited by the boundaries of my physiology and my
psychological structure anymore this gives me a larger sense of experience
we want to the mythology so we know that Eliot was written by Homer right a blind
guy he wrote that there are 14 thousand horses but since we know that he could
not have seen it for himself we believe that there is some sort of historical
you know storytelling going on there would you say but but nowadays all the
scriptures religious scriptures are taken as gospel
so should we also believe that there is myth making in in the Ramayana in
Mahabharata and that taking them as gospel rather than just work of
literature is wrong I I don't see anybody taking Ramayana and Mahabharata
is a gospel they cannot because they'll get freaked out with confusion because
there are all kinds of people in Mahabharat the best sort of men the
worst sort of men in between every kind of man and woman is their hundred
thousand characters how can you make a gospel out of it
so you said storytelling I I don't know if you've seen the byline of youth in
truth not the seriousness of gospel but the playfulness of gossip because gossip
has always been reliable know at any time in history nobody went by the
official version whatever the official version came people asked around with
their friends and relatives what happened when five people said five
different things people learnt out of their wisdom to extract some truth out
of the gossip but people always relied more on the gossip than the official
version isn't it so it's not just today always however given that this gossip
can lead to a transformation of this truth to an extent where it's lost
forever do you think that's troubling see first of all you're questioning did
it actually happen right so we are saying that the same argument which you
have given is the argument which is usually used these days to say that
buildings which were constructed by the Mughals were actually not mobile
I hope okay however that's was it being misinterpreted completely now say if you
come further south people are questioning whether Rama existed or not
okay this is a just a question of poor memory when the entire nation has been
talking about it for thousands of years now the problem is your trust in printed
word is more than the spoken word that is the whole problem but you must
understand this is a rural culture we always transmitted most significant
things orally you may you may think it's insignificant because it's not written
but anybody can write it down people have written it down now now it's a
printed word but now somebody questions did Rama exist or not not in one place
in entire culture when everybody is talking about the same story with minor
variations here and there it could not have been just made up by all the people
since I guess I guess his point was also by bringing in the Iliad example the
same that the war on Troy did happen but the fact that Homer says that fourteen
thousand horses were there is clearly not truth maybe not maybe ROM did exist
but other facts which are hardly aware after all Indians we we invented zero we
have certain freedom in using number of zeros we're taking liberty with that
don't say see whether whether six seven thousand years ago whether hundred
thousand men fought or ten thousand men fought doesn't make a difference the way
the story is said in this country is not for its facts but for its truth you're
trying to bring out a certain truth the fact of it whether a hundred thousand
men for ten thousand men what what does it matter you don't have to manage that
war today each over so the important thing is what is there
for me to learn from that all right if if that's a question mark we can go
ahead with that I guess that was his point itself that when you look at
religious texts as you would learn they don't call them religious texts
this is nation's history so let's say if you look at another piece of literature
you would derive learnings from it literature is different histories
different literature literature can be friction history is written in a
dialectical way so that it's always relevant for you I am saying 6,000 years
ago whether a man existed or not what's my problem unless he has something to
contribute to my life today isn't it however if history has been written and
the facts of the history are not clear see this is what I am saying the fact is
like this suppose 6,000 years ago Rama had a wife whose name was not Sita
what's my problem you're not questioning whether the name was not only the name I
am saying okay he was not his father's name was not that it was something else
he was somebody else what does it matter very even question the sequence of
events over here you can see sequence of events also you can question but what I
am asking is a 6,000 year old drama if it got a little mixed up it is not your
problem the problem is just this is there something for us to get from that
that's all the thing is now why we are worshipping Rama in this country is he's
not a super success he is a serial disaster if you look at it yes even
today is having real estate issues that's why you brought this up
but it is not today alone it's not today alone right from the beginning of his
life he's in trouble and trouble and trouble and trouble he's rightfully a
king he is coronated at the age of 17 or 18 he may marry a princess and within a
1 or 2 years he's sent to the forest they didn't go to the jungle for picnic
as some of the television serials are showing Rama Sita doing all that no it
is a it is a like you know throwing him out of the kingdom from his power and
everything that itself would have shattered a man but he settled down
there but Rama is also an insecure person who when when Sita came back to
him first she sucked river he will come there don't jump first let's kidnap her
no now you are changing then now you are changing the sequence of things first
let's kidnap her all right now this Sri Lankan people come and kidnap his wife
and go away after all after all he is a king if somebody steals his wife and
takes her away some 3,000 kilometers down south there's no GPS to even find
out where is Sri Lanka all right at a time like that being a king you could
have found a local solution there would be any number of women to marry the man
he's a king but he goes in search of her not with a big army just him and his
brother like ordinary people if a man has to walk 3,000 kilometres down south
not knowing where she's whether she's alive or dead or what's happened then
she must mean so much to him yes or no otherwise why what a man walks up that
distance now he goes there he forms a Tamil army don't forget this and then
there is a fight kills hundreds of people burns down a beautiful city gets
back his wife comes and settles down before this I will tell you he goes for
a year of penance in Himalayas his brother asks are you crazy
this man stole your wife and now you're doing penance for his death he said he
had ten basic qualities Ramana killing those nine which were horrendous
qualities I know penance for me no repentance for that but he was also a
great devotee and I killed that also so one year of penance the man goes for
this is not a victim and then he settles down and his wife is
pregnant you must understand for a king his wife is pregnant means it's not just
about a child it's a progeny for his empire and the
many things involved no sonogram so he doesn't know whether it's a girl or a
boy or boys or girls or anything but once again a political situation evolves
where he has to send his wife to the forest which you are saying is in
security so we can even begin from the first point in which after he rescue
Sita Sita has to sit through a fire to prove that she is pure for whom so that
other people will accept because Rama cared about how people saw Rama when he
came back a random movie in your kingdom said that Sita I am NOT like Rama who
will keep a woman in my house who might have a child which is not mine
for this Rama sends a vicita again to the forest that that is the insecurity
you talk any point Rama wanted his people to love him no no let's come to
this properly today in our country there are many kinds of things I'm asking you
do you want a leader for this nation who puts the people of this nation about his
own family and his personal love I'm asking you or do you want a great
rashtra at any cost to my son you want a man who puts the citizens of this
country above his family this is not a jest another woman for him he went and
fought a battle for her walk 3,000 kilometers this is not just another
woman he is living for her but still he sends her back to the jungle when she is
pregnant knowing fully well that it could be his
future for this kingdom and he is putting seeds is not just about adobe
this is what your mistake you're taking these things literally when adobe said
what it is being said these ordinary people are talking like this ordinary
people have no trust in the king that he he's just brought some woman from
somewhere and she's made of our Queen because queen is seen as a mother to the
we don't want such a woman as our mother that's what they're saying she went and
lived with some men somewhere this is what the people of those times are
saying so if the King says I don't care what you think I allow my wife and keep
her that would be not a good thing not a good administrator so he's putting his
people about somebody that he loves very very dearly and she's pregnant it's not
a small thing for him it means a world but still he sends her to the jungle
this should be bowed down to this is why we bow down to the man no they say no no
no no why he has something to say please so there are different types of
responsibilities of you as a person as a king there are different
responsibilities and as a human as a family member you have different
responsibilities now you can't just throw away your wife and send her to a
jungle it's it's like just objectifying her it's not treating her like another
human who's pregnant who need different things that have promised her different
things well then you are against Gautam Buddha you are against Rama everybody
but you need to understand this in the right context that is if this woman
didn't mean anything to her he wouldn't have traveled down to Sri Lanka what a
battle and brought her back isn't he is pride you know God he could have got a
hundred wives around him if he wished but he went for this person who means so
much to him moving on no no you must see the words that he uttered
you must see the words he uttered about Sita what she means to him how he cried
to Lakshmana and what he said actions are we more important why are
you reading all these evil intentions in his mind that he did not express
anywhere he did not express without words we can say anything as far as you
are concerned you know only what you've read you don't know anything else about
his life neither me nor you all right so from what you read nowhere does it say
that he was insecure no where does it say he went for his
pride no no no everywhere it says very clearly let me tell you the reason why
he is worshipped today though life through disasters have two disasters at
him the man never became resentful never became hateful never became angry he did
not become a recluse either he went about fulfilling every duty that he has
to do with a personal pain and grief that he is carrying all his life the man
went about doing the best he can do for his brother of the day if this is being
accused of being as Pride and this there were strong reactions to that question
but I believe I think that's a nice segue to the next one which is one why
do you say it's a reaction at least you had once said that people should not
react to injustice but this country has been based on civil disobedience
movement did I say they should not react to injustice there was a court of you
like what said that people should not why don't you just read the court and so
forth paraphrasing like this maybe you read a quote was I should not react to
India justice yes yes but I did not say you should not respond sensibly we we
want to know why what context because the context is I am differentiating
between human response and human reaction if I react
I will only cause one more injustice right now what I think is injustice I
will feel angry and I will do one more injustice but if
I see this injustice is happening and respond to the best of my intelligence
and my capability there could be a solution defined reaction
yes reaction and response have clearly defined all along is it not important
that you respond consciously rather than rely reacting violently we completely
agree with this right I'm glad you serious face is gone you're laughing now
we can come so this was you good at somewhere that religions have nothing to
do with the lynchings that have been going on around but if we see the facts
of members of a particular minority community are being targeted by the
perpetrators who identified themselves with another religious community and if
these are the facts then how can you say that religions are not connected to the
lynchings say probably you're just going by the television reports just go a
little further into that so read your book as well book I'm talking about
lynchings yeah so in your book you have mentioned that you went to a village and
all these men was your friend and you mentioned that no I will tell you the
incident properly you don't water this down I will tell you that incident
properly will you give me in two minutes all right
see I was living in a remote part of Karnataka Karnataka is generally docile
peaceful place it's not a very activist kind or violent kind there's no
religious frictions happening it's very docile people one day I just write down
into the village and the big crowd and what is it I just park and go and see
the beating one person like you can't imagine with all kinds of things
whatever they get I try to stop they just brush me aside
and said you don't get into this as I saw within two three minutes the man
died don't know who he is those days in the villages nobody wore trousers
normally they wear either short sword OTS and things like that
this guy had trousers and some kind of dirty looking shirt and somebody thought
he's a child lift up right there they killed him on the dug a hole right
outside the village where everybody can see and the buried him right there
because nobody has any fear that this is going to be a murder this is going to be
pursued there is no such thing they they think it's their right to do that I was
a poor till then I had never faced a situation like that in my life I was
just 22 23 so I wrote down to the police station which was just about eight eight
or nine kilometres from there this policeman thought the sub-inspector was
my senior in college so I knew him so I went to him and I just saw this you have
to come and do something he said you do not get into these things I said what
they kill the man I can show you where he is buried this body is right there
nothing I try to talk to the local MLA he said please you don't get into this
when I really looked at it then it happened after three four days late
night around 1:30 I am coming from Mysore city to my farm on a remote road
is a very remote place you know it's in the hills I ride him young people are
standing there with fires burning with sticks and rods and everything oh this
out the motorcycle comes means if you don't identify yourself you would be
killed too right there without a question because the rumor is gone
around somebody is doing child lifting there's a local dam coming up they're
sacrificing many children nobody knows where the hell is the dam
nobody knows if anybody ever lost a child in the region but just this rumor
goes around then when I really look at it I saw another one like this which
happened for some stealing that happened another one where he was beaten but he
did not die when you really look at it every year in
this country over 40,000 children go missing so there is a paranoia in the
villages especially girl girl children who go missing they just never found
found never ever found so tomorrow if my child disappears what do I do
hold on a fire and sit there and praise it so first thing is to react in such a
way if my child is stolen is it an injustice to me hello and never to find
the child again not knowing what happened with that alive or dead if they
die in front of you it's okay but they just disappear and you don't know
whether alive or dead you know what the parents go through so there is a
paranoia about this the same thing happens if somebody steals any animal or
if the cut a tree in there this is what happens when you use gossip as your
source of information you are just misinterpreting the whole thing please I
have to say this where is gossip as you you think the whole script the all the
literature or whatever the history that we are talking about is all gossip no no
I don't going back to the point no no why are we referring to that now
you're referring to remain as just gossip I am NOT referring to that same
point you only said that there was a rumor going around obviously see you're
calling it gossip but I am Telling You this is fear this is fear of a
population who are not protected by any law except their own stuff they are on
their own don't think some police force will come
in a helicopter and save your children there is no such arrangement when there
is no arrangement like that they make their own crude arrangements
unfortunately I have seen somebody says one cow is stolen immediately 10-15 boys
get on the bicycles and ride in different directions one 30 40
kilometres this if they catch the guy that's the end of him right there
not because curve is religion simply because it's economy with two cows I am
making my life if you steal my cow my children will go hungry tomorrow morning
so they will fight so this is cause the law has not spread itself to
every inch of geography on this land you must understand this even today in a big
city I'm telling you if something happens to you if you want to file a
complaint you will have to take the local MLA somebody else a businessman
who know somebody by yourself you can't find this is the reality somebody who
has no basis in his life does this imply mob justice is valid how are you saying
these things do I look like a ninja for you then why are you asking that
question I am telling you this is the problem the problem means we don't want
to understand the reality in the pain of the people we just want to make a
judgment on them I am saying unfortunately nobody has provided them a
way so they're doing their own things when mob enforces something this is the
unfortunate way it will happen do we want this to happen absolutely no but do
we have means to stop it right now till you make law available to everybody and
quick justice to everybody I am telling you people will do their own things if
you think they should not do because you are living in the safe
you know enclosure of a wonderful institution you don't understand what it
is in a village when my child was missing what do i do what do i do where
do I go you don't know I have seen people women crying and beating their
breasts and walking around because the children are missing they don't know
where they've gone finished can I speak yes sir
so you have talked in general about the lynchings that have been happening and
we don't deny that they have been happening throughout the history they
have been happening in this country and our inability to bring them to the
judiciary is the cause but I am talking about a specific ID or a I got which
have increase recently and which have facts that they have been increasing
recently it's not about my cow getting steamed
it's about there is a car somewhere out there it's been killed and now I have to
Lynch for that there is a difference in mentality and it has not been seen
before definitely there is it's not that it's not been seen before it's right now
being reported because this is one of the strategic political strategies
that's happening in the country it's not also about political strategy or there
are many incidences which have not been reported by media but are still
happening at this research being going on about about that so whatever we found
out about the lynching are just like few percentage of that it's a very small
percentage what you found out till now in this for years because basically this
is all focused towards this particular government all right so in this four
years 42 lynchings have been reported out of these 12 lynchings are supposed
to be more what do you say religious basis is there to it 12 of them out of
42 but over three and a half to four million bovine animals in this country
are stolen every year and they smuggled across both the borders now western
border has become very tight because of security issues largely it's going
through the eastern border when this who is losing these four and four million
cows you must see this whose economy is ruined somebody's economy is ruined his
family economy is ruined isn't it because animals went away over three and
a half to four million animals are stolen in the country every year and
anyway for your information every year in four years 42 lynchings have happened
12 of them have a religious connotation to it for sure
there's no cause that is reported that is reported but what is not reported is
every year over hundred uniformed men including BSF soldiers are lynched and
killed by the cattle smugglers that's totally different
it's not doing that into it that's totally a different issue no no please
wise it is connected right so this is not justice please let us why just
because somebody wears a uniform he is easy supposed to die I am just saying
let's not connect these two issues only Regis security I want you to understand
when there is a large-scale crime going on when there's a large-scale crime
going on four million animals means on this side of the border they are
approximately ten to fifteen thousand rupees across the border they're between
thirty to fifty thousand rupees I want you to calculate the numbers you are the
business guys all right I won't get the numbers right please get me the numbers
with you so when I've been happy please understand this
these cows don't fly they they have to be walked all right
these cows these animals have to be walked or transported in trucks only
small amount is transported in trucks rest of them are walked in the nights
okay from across the country four million animals when such a large scale
crime is happening you think there will be no reaction at all when nobody is
caught by change now right now I said few years it is not now it is only
reported now it's always been happening I am telling you if they have reported
only 42 lynchings I will I will you know I am on camera but I am telling you from
my experience of rural India I would say anywhere between 200 to 500 lynchings
have happened in these four years and similar numbers are much bigger numbers
have happened in the past because unfortunately this is how things are
enforced in this country you have to change it means you have to create an
enforcement mechanism that's available to everybody in United States they say
an average time in which a police car arrives is three minutes and 20 seconds
even if it's in Montana average time in New York City they will arrive within 30
40 seconds armed men not just handguns if you open
their boot they got a short gun they got rifles they got works now a lot of
welding cycle grid and policemen come you think he can handle this 1015 youth
or 100 youth were indulging in this violence he is not capable of handling
so can we create a nation where law can be enforced or are we just going on
accusing each other you did it I did it I did it you did it what's the point if
you want to create a law-abiding nation the the instruments of law should be
strengthened we are talking about police reforms for 25 years where the hell are
they to wrap up the argument here allow me I'll be so you what are you
suggesting is that mass hysteria is pretty common has already existed mostly
because of say you can give see you can give name sitting in the comfort of your
well-to-do homes you can give these names it's mass hysteria tell me any of
you ladies I'm asking you suppose your child is stolen and you you know that
you may never find how will you react you will go wild
all right don't call it mass hysteria this that this is absence of law
enforcement be or also agreeing with that that it is strong but why are you
calling it mass hysteria as if it's some kind of an ailment I mean this is caused
because people don't have enough information or they believe in rumors or
because there are rumors but why are you ignoring every 40,000 children are
stolen it's not a rumor it's a fact for nearly 4 million cattle are stolen it's
not a rumor it's a fact legal enforcement needs to be strengthened the
fact that these things that is all I am saying but you pick up one sentence and
you say supporting lynching how can you say that this this looks like I am NOT
supporting Lynch against lucky one important thing is these are things
which we came across which we felt that you can ask me there is there is no
problem asking any question he wanted to know what was the context this is the
lyrics all right because as you pointed out people should not react to injustice
had a very different context they must respond sensibly in a conscious manner
human being means one significant aspect of who we are is
cp2 the same things animals do we are born they are born we eat they they
reproduce very produced we sleep they sleep we die they die we do the same
things only difference is we can do these things consciously if we give up
that one consciously acting we're just one more creature on this planet so I am
why was making the distinction if you react you will just express your animal
nature in some way so this whole lynching business is just a reaction but
at the same time people are helpless they have no other way there is no other
way you can go and file any fire and hold this paper in your hand you will
not see anything happening in a village you've said that all men and women are
equal we all believe that why should you believe like there is no disagreement
here I thought it's the same species what do you think it is but you also
said that you cannot imagine your own household without a non-working mother
did I say that yes no my mother's mother was working more than anybody else she
took a lot of pride in doing her work
okay let's come to the major point so unlike your mother my mother she's also
working mother the woman have had a choice right my my mother had a choice
your mother had a choice but that's not the case with everyone right so the main
point is that of agency right and then believe that the agency is being taken
away because of the gender of the person so they are not allowed to decide what
is what is happening site will expecting expectations are there when you don't
fulfill expectations there will be some price to pay but that is so for
everybody that is see I am NOT trying to say there is not been a certain level of
exploitation there definitely has been but don't once again react to that and
do reverse job all you have to do is educate educate educate just leave it
you will see in a generation everything will change this is the first generation
of women in this country who stepped out please understand women have stepped out
and doing so many things in the world not because of your liberal ideas it's
only because of technology because technology is leveled the playing field
technology has taken away the significance of man's brawn isn't it so
man's muscle has become insignificant simply because of technological
development not because of some liberalism or feminism or whatever it is
only because of technological development women are able to step out
and do the same things that men were doing in the past or even for the men it
is new to sit in the office and do this otherwise they were digging something
all right once the machines came man's muscle became insignificant because of
that there is a way so just allow a little more time rather than doing
something in a rush in a reactionary way and breaking the social structures
because if you break them do you have a better alternative that's a question
right now you are talking about your um you who didn't want a working mother my
mother was working all the time and she was very proud of what she was doing
and she was the most respected person in the family only thing is only your idea
of work is how much did she earn it was not significant for her the rupees and
paisa were not significant for her her values were totally different
again I think intent of the question got mistranslated tremendously why are you
so would you say that you know you only mean the reading the question and how
can it be miss translated so we can talk about you know the changing gender
structure in the workforce and all that but do you feel that you know all the
major movements feminism civil disobedience anti-apartheid anti racism
these are responses or reactions see anti-apartheid is a different dimension
altogether alright that's a different thing
similarly we how is it different see it is a an engineer an engineer
discrimination alright between men and women things responsibilities were
divided it is only when it so happened that our values became purely economic
suddenly we thought women are at a disorder disadvantage if you go to the
village and see men and women are working on the field as equals well she
will do planting he will do digging does it mean to mean to say in equality he
has more muscles so he does that kind of work she has another kind of strength so
disease does this and well you brought my mother into the picture now she had
four children when you have four children you have a project on hand
all right well it's an important project she did a good job on me the that kind
that I was if she did not tend to me constantly I don't know what I would
have become all right she did a good job on me and I'm glad
not by domineering presence but simply out of her loud you could not do
anything that she won't like simply because he will simply sit there with a
tear in her eye and finished everybody's finished in the house that's all she
never said one word she never scolded anybody abused anybody beat anybody if
we did something that was against whatever she thought is good for
everybody just one tear appeared in her eyes
finished we were everybody got fixed absolutely so she had that kind of power
and she exerted that when she had to because she did not earn money she seen
failure to anybody I don't think so I don't think no no when you say working
mother and a non working mother it's a wrong description they're working only
thing is they may not be getting paid for it exactly how you say that react
and response are nuanced versions of the same forward working non-working Harney
ones so we're talking about you know the gender roles that are usually associated
and and what the expectation is say if if a woman wants to work outside anyway
there is a biological responsibility for some reason nature is trusted a woman
more than the man and interested no interested this responsibility of
manufacturing I am using the word manufacturing intently intentionally
manufacturing the next generation using this one of the most important things
that needs to happen in human societies hello if we don't do this properly it
doesn't matter what kind of management techniques you learn is it going to work
in the society I'm asking so now once you have a child
human child is not born like other preachers you drop you know a cow drops
a calf and immediately it starts running around a human being is not born like
that human beings needs nurture now we are in a society where the first
generation has stepped out to work outside once again because of technology
there again started working from home which is a very good thing actually but
they stepped outside but we don't have social structures to take care of the
young ones you leave your children into somebody's hands and go you know what
all damage can happen you know how America is suffering for this though
they have lot of structures and laws about how children should be taken care
of in spite of that I'm just I'm just saying this because just a few days ago
they brought this child who's eight year old girl from Ohio
an Indian couple when the child was young they left this child usually
teenage students take up this babysitting because they need some extra
money so this is called as what they shake them like this what's it called
there's some term for this that they shake the children like this when
they're crying so that they quite not so this girl was shaken like parenting
bad parenting no no no the babysitter's the babysitters are known to do this
there is a term technical term for that because there are so many thousands of
cases where children have been damaged because of the shaking so this pine got
damaged and this girl the left side got paralyzed and they brought this girl to
me she 8 year old girl now we are putting her through various things she's
beginning to walk but her speech is not there so many troubles normal child but
a 17 year old girl who came there to do babysitting she's just got irritated
with this baby crying and she shook her so child a human child needs not just
nourishment it needs somebody to play with somebody to laughs somebody to
smile somebody to love and hug and kiss the child till we make such arrangements
don't be in too much of a rush because will damage a whole generation of people
we need to make those are inventions see just now just now this society has
just beginning to more away from joint family structure where we had the luxury
of grandmothers and arms and this and that all that is gone nuclear families
have come just husband wife children now there is no support system nor is there
an organized support system either by the government or private agencies
nobody has come up with a real-time support system for young children where
are you going to throw them and go when you go to work I don't believe he's
meaning you throw them and go I am says it I did not say he means that
are you taking everything like I didn't mean he I mean I didn't mean he said
that I mean to say suppose I have I am a woman and I have a job and I have a
child what do I do when the society doesn't make arrangements what do I do
with my child where do I live in whose hands because of positive time and
because many might also have questions over here will have to open the floor
for questions will be opening the floor for questions right now so people in
that quadrant but you should not translate their questions okay
I have a question that uh if I if I say if I get a seat at I am and my parents
are very happy and then they congratulate me for my hard work but the
same thing if I do not get a seat they are like you will get what God intended
for you so if already everything is predestined
for me why do I take up all this effort to even work hard no no it is not
predestined they are just they just have a system as to how to address the
failure they don't want you to get totally frustrated and agonized by
something that did not work this is God's intention just enjoy the God's lap
okay this is a this an effective way of creating Solace this is not a solution
but this is a solace this is a psychological process that somebody is
trying to diminish your suffering for that moment so that you understand you
are in greater plan that's why we didn't get the admission namaskaram Sadhguru my
question is everybody has got their own dream especially related to Korean but
sometimes the dream of a child goes against the willingness of his parents a
child who want to do something and his parents want him to do something else
what should a child do in this situation should should he go against with his own
dream against his best parents with his own dream or should he kill the dream
inside him and obey his parents are you the child son no luckily I am NOT well
we must understand this if what we want to do is not in already laid out path if
you want to do something different if you think you will ever do it with
everybody's approval it'll never happen all right at the same time somebody has
born you somebody has brought you up somebody has educated you somebody has
in many ways they lived their life for you can you just reject them
do what the hell you want No so you must understand the parent and child
relationship is that of love you must increase the love volume and do what you
want to do now the problem is when you when they say no you will get angry and
say nasty things no you should not react like that you must respond by increasing
the love volume when you increase the love volume they melt then you must tell
them see this is what I wish to do otherwise I will not be happy doing what
you want me to do they will there is a prize for
everything we do in our lives so we were talking about how it is a dilemma for a
mother if she has a job to serve and a child to take care of my question is why
the same dilemma doesn't exist for the father because we are talking about a
mother should be there to play with the child to take care why can a father not
be there all by the same dilemma doesn't exist for the father as it does for the
mother it is not that it doesn't exist it does exist today it is just that at
an early age a child prefers mother's company more than the father's when he
starts running around he likes father when he is still crawling and
boo-boo-boo he likes mother at least the first three years four years the child
prefers the mother because it's natural for the child to prefer that comfort of
a mother but when he starts running around 6 7 8 then he wants father
because he wants a twin child he wants to go out he wants to go on a motorcycle
or you want to go somewhere else but early age he wants the comfort of the
mother now generally we have not created this this is something we can do which
we have been talking about but not happened there are many people like this
I said such people move into one apartment one lady who's really good at
children with children she could take care of all
the children very well and do something some cooperation has to happen because
we have banished our grandmothers and aunts and others we can't stand them
anymore at least somebody who could be paid something but who's a volunteer not
simply a paid person who's going to shake your child like this somebody who
has some care and concern for the child has to be there but unfortunately those
arrangements are yet to happen in our society because it's new arrangements
have not come I'm sure in the next 15 20 years these will come but there is a
certain amount of suffering in the meantime so for the manifestation or the
achievement of the goals of passions or even for holding a king cobra as you say
a wholesome control over the chemistry of thoughts and emotions is necessary so
at this point in life with so many stimulations opportunities distractions
ambitions passions everything hovering all around how to achieve that control
over the chemistry of thoughts emotions and fears as well so how do agree wit or
elevate that either within to read that like to reach that silence within where
we could do what we want and whatever v1 becomes what it is it's a long question
say one thing is when it comes to what's within us if we do not harness the
process of this body and the process of this mind you will not do anything
significant isn't it so the question is what methods do you have
right now the only methods you have is education that is learning learning
techniques learning methods learning information exposure this there are
other ways to do this also where you can organize yourself that your body and
your mind takes instructions from you this is one aspect of it it must your
body and your mind are your most basic faculties that you have they must take
instructions from you if they work against you you're finished isn't it
right now you call this stress anxiety nonsense whatever essentially your
intelligence is working against you your thought and emotion is not going the way
you want it to go it's doing its own thing well if you cannot manage your own
mind how the hell are you going to manage let's say 100 or thousand or
10,000 Minds because management essentially means you must be able to
manage the people managing the people means you must get everybody to get to
one intent and act in a significant way how will you do this when your own mind
doesn't take instructions from you you cannot manage yours but you believe you
can manage this there is no way it's going to happen this is why a whole lot
of people who are in successful professions are all having ulcers heart
burns heart breaks and all kinds of things because they are upping the
activity without enhancing themselves it is like you want to be on a Formula one
track but you went with your small little car that you everybody drives to
the office then if you drive at a certain speed four wheels will go in
four different directions this is what is happening to a whole lot of people
when they aspire for what they want and go at it
body breaks down there man breaks down something happens simply because they
have not strived to in hence this first you enhance this activity will open up
in the world for you but you are in a rush for the goals that you have set up
already because of that you don't spend time on them if you do not enhance the
machine activity cannot be enhanced stress will happen breakdown will happen
isn't it but when it comes to the outside world there are a lot of
misunderstandings about what is coming our way can I tell you - because it's
been so serious I this happened in Michigan a tiny little bird was very
exuberant and happy and winter started coming it should have gone south but it
was so happy it forgot about it and little late then he tried to fly but
because of the cold the its wings froze and it fell down then a cow was passing
that way with an American cop
a car was passing that way and it dropped a heap of dung and it fell right
on the bird so inside this dung the warmth of the dung caused thaw of the
wings the ice melted away and it felt happy and warm
tick-tick-tick it started tweeting from inside the dung it couldn't get up but
it was happy inside the dung a cat was going by it heard this bird tweaking it
opened up the dung and he ate of the bird the moral of the story is not
everybody who heaps dung on you is your enemy not everybody who gets you out of
shit is your friend and
and and above all when you're in a heap of shit keep your mouth shut this is
this is now I'm saying this because this is because we have created a world now
if I have trouble I must talk to everybody in the world they're all going
to give thousand solutions no when you feel you're in trouble please just spend
some time upon yourself invest some time and energy upon yourself because there
is no trouble which troubles you except what you allow isn't it what is it
you must invest some time and energy upon yourself this value of Solitude is
totally gone in the world in this generation please bring it back if you
want to make yourself of some substance
I'd like to just thank the chef foundation for such a wonderful show
they put on well and thank you said guru for spending so much time with us but
this we closed the session I want you to understand I don't know to what extent
all of you are exposed to the nature of the country in which you're living we
constantly keep gloating about the tremendous things the nation has done in
the past yes it is true but we've also forgotten a whole lot of horrendous
things that have happened to this country and today we are where we are
where there is inaccurate inequality of observed kind okay absurd
kind and most cruel kind where I give problems in this country this country is
a heap of problems this education that you're getting here in a premier
institution please may become the source of sorting out and solving the problems
in this country because I am telling you not even 1% not even 1% of this country
this population can even sit in the kind of comfort and ambience that you and me
are sitting right now not even 1% this cannot be called success
this cannot be called even a nation if you ask me so we have to make a nation
out of this 1.3 billion people we have in our hands and a whole lot of them are
youthful please whatever knowledge and capabilities that you get invest that to
bring some humanity to the human beings who are living in this country please
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