Hello, everybody, be all very welcome to the channel "AFINAL, WHAT ARE WE?"
Rael had an inflammation in his heart,
three cardiac arrests, one of which lasted more than four minutes,
and his pressure was ... zero.
During his NDE,
he felt clearly that if he wished he could fly.
Let's know his story?
Good morning, Rael.
Good Morning.
We are here today to hear your story about your NDE.
I would like you to introduce yourself,
and tell us your age and then tell us your story.
My name is Rael Barja,
I'm an actor ...
I'm a photographer ...
I'm 32 years old ...
and...
I had the experience of NDE when I was 18 years old.
and it was May, the same month we are now, it was May 21st.
Can I start talking?
Of course.
What happened ... what made you have this experience?
Yeah ... you know, the name NDE I just knew about it after I met you from the channel ...
I did not even know that there was this acronym and ...
I think I was kind of lost in space-time ...
kind of leaving all that aside and living my life ...
even though I knew I had experienced it.
I had this NDE when I was 18 years old ... I lived in Avaré, in the interior of São Paulo state...
with my mother.
My father worked far away ... a lot ... and my sister lived here in São Paulo.
So... I was very lonely ... because my mother used to work ... in another city ...
and I lived in Avaré and I was there because of school.
I was attending the senior high school at the time ...
I was studying to go to college.
I remember that I ... was.. in that moment 17, 18 years old...
I used to go out, to drink and to have fun as every boy of the age of 17 or 18 usually does.
And I remember I got a cold.
I had a very bad cold.
And I wasn't getting healed.
A month went by, and I still had a cold, with cough ...
very congested nose...
and I was handling the situation, thinking that everything was fine, life going on.
Then one day I went to do a simulated test at school.
and then I started coughing a lot during the test.
I started coughing, coughing a lot ... like that ... My chest was really bad ...
And I thought ...
I started to feel bad and I thought "I'm not going to finish this test and I'm going home".
I told the teacher and I went to my house.
That happened on the 20th, before May 21st.
And then I got home, I was alone, I prepaired a lunch still feeling kind of bad,
I had a strange sensation in my body, a sensation of a cold, but quite stronger.
It was noon when I got home.
At five in the afternoon I began to feel chills,
I started to feel very bad ...
I started to cough more ... more and more ...
I started to feel a very big chest pain ...
and then, when it was eight o'clock at night,
I was at home, feeling bad,
I had not told anything to my mother because I did not want to worry her ...
and when it was eight o'clock that night, I started to get worse.
I started to have very, very high fever ...
I put the thermometer and my temperature was bout 107 degrees Fahrenheit ...
and then, after 10 minutes I measured again...
and my temperature had dropped a lot ...
it had gone to 97 degrees Fahrenheit]
It kept oscillating ... a lot.
I was sweating a lot ... cold and hot.
I took a medicine ... some anti-flu...
I took two pills once and went to bed.
To try to sleep.
I drank plenty of water and went to sleep.
I put the phone beside me and lay on my bed.
Two hours after I lay down, still sweating a lot, I started to delirious because of the fever.
I started to see bats in my room ...
I started to hear the sound of bats, I started to be afraid ...
I started to see all this, I started to delirious, delirious ...
when I tried to get out of bed I did not feel my foot on the floor.
I started to get into a paranoia ...
that if I left my bed I would fall forever ... into an abyss ...
so I could not get out of bed and started to get a little desperate,
I began to cry, in despair,
and coughing a lot, coughing a lot, hot and cold at the same time ...
then I picked up the phone and called my mother and said,
mother, it's full of bats here in my room,
I'm hearing frog noise, if I get out of bed I'll fall, I'll fall forever,
Come here, please, I'm desperate.
Then my mother came from the city where she was, it took her an hour to get at my house, she came quickly,
and when she opened the bedroom door and turned on the light ...
I was with blood here ...
I had blood on my chest ...
blood because I was coughing blood but I was not seeing ... I was in the dark ...
then she, desperate, got me up, called a neighbor, got the car and we all went to the hospital.
The Santa Casa Hospital [Holy House Hospital] of my city.
On the way, in the car, I started to ... stop feeling my arm, I started to stop feeling my body ...
I started getting my senses ...
I started to listen as if everything was farther away ...
I started to see my mother and the neighbor more distant ...
I could not speak comprehensively...
I started speaking and could not continue: "Mother ... I think I ..."
and then I could not really verbalize ...
until we arrived at Santa Casa Hospital.
The two [mother and neighbor] held me ...
and then ... when I got into the Santa Casa Hospital...
I remember losing all the strength of my body ...
of not being able to ...
I blacked out ...
Then the medical doctors arrived, I was put on a stretcher,
They started that process, took off my clothes ...
they put a probe ...
I remember my mother ... pale ... looking ... immobilized ...
all was being done in that room, there was no time to go to the emergency,
It was all done right there in the ... reception ... of the hospital.
Then I remember ...
the nurse asking me, "what's your name ... what's your name?"
And I could not speak ...
I knew my name but I kept ...
I could not move ... I could not move a finger ...
then a nurse came and did like that in my eye ... and said: "do not sleep, do not sleep, stay awake".
Then they started a resuscitation process ...
I was told about this later ...
For me, I had a ... malaise ... I had low blood pressure ...
And it was really low, it was zero.
You were shocked, were not you?
And were you conscious at this time?
All the time.
That was ... I did not know ...
as I was seeing everything, without being able to speak, and seeing the movement,
I did not understand their reaction because I noticed that everyone was very desperate.
And I kept thinking, "But ... do you need so much?"
At that time I did not feel any more pain.
I only saw the reaction of the people, and I got desperate to see my mother like that ...
and I wanted to speak and could not ...
so it was a desperation because I couldn't speak and was seeing the despair of those people.
But were you still seeing through your eyes?
I was seeing from here ... I was seeing here ... I was seeing everything from here.
Then ... they injected something into my vein, I do not know, maybe something related to resuscitation ...
until the defibrillator arrived.
then they did the defibrillation process ...
and I did not feel anything ...
but I was seeing all that ...
and...
then, after this, I came back ...
it's a feeling ... I really do not know how much time passed ... until I felt the pain again ...
but I remember that I was already in another room.
I remember the defibrillator, I remember... I was not feeling anything, I remember being kind of shocked with all that ...
feeling the smell, burnt smell ... I smelled that ...
and ... when I could speak and feel pain again I was in another room ...
and they asked me, "Are you here with us? Do you have any pain?"
"I have chest pain."
Then you answered?
Then I could speak, with difficulty of sending the coordination to the mouth, but I said:
"I have a lot of chest pain."
My chest was hurting a lot.
Then I went to the ICU of Santa Casa,
and the medical doctors did not quite know what I had.
pneumonia ... they thought it was pneumonia ...
but they were not sure because the infection level was too high ...
and they did not know very well what to do ...
then they had a meeting and talked to my mother:
"we do not know what to do with him..."
we might open him, we'll have to open him to see what's going on,
if the problem is in the heart, if it is in the lung ... to see what's going on,
because he had a shock, his pressure was zero,
his organs stopped for a while ...
and then they said: "Either we open him or we try to send him to the Heart Hospital in São Paulo."
But we do not know if we are going to make it to take him alive till the Heart Hospital in São Paulo.
and then ... a doctor said that it was better not to open him because if we opened him it could cause septicaemia ...
immediately ... if we opened him ...
then my mother said, "No, we will not open him ..."
"and we'll try to go to the Heart Hospital somehow."
Then I stayed in the ICU, and I remember much of the ICU, I remember people arriving,
came a man who had been run over...
I remember they did not tell me what was happening,
that maybe I had pneumonia and maybe I had to go to the Heart Hospital in São Paulo.
Then my father arrived, my father was in another state, Minas Gerais ... he arrived ...
he found me in the ICU room ... I was coughing a lot ...
pus and a lot of blood ... I couldn't stop coughing, I lay on my side just coughing pus and blood ...
We got a vacancy at Heart Hospital in São Paulo ...
it was already early morning ... because my mother and I went to the hospital around midnight, okay?
Around nine in the morning ... on the 21st ...
we got that vacancy,
we hired an ambulance,
and we came here [to Heart Hospital].
It was a 3 hours trip from Avaré to São Paulo.
We came here by ambulance,
and I remember that in the ambulance I started to understand a little bit more what was happening,
to be aware of the seriousness ...
I started to get very desperate...
My father was in the ambulance with me ...
then when we were near Paulista Avenue,
I remember the driver saying that we had just entered Paulista Avenue ...
and then ... my probe filled with blood.
At that moment.
Then I started to get really desperate.
and then I noticed that there was a growing uneasiness in the ambulance...
they started to accelerate ....
and I started to feel again ...
to feel strong smells ...
of ether ... of flower ... I felt many mixed smells ...
very strong ... they even disoriented me...
those smells...
Then I remember that we arrived at the hospital ...
they had to do some things about the vacancy ... we waited a bit in the ambulance ...
and the nurses were a little desperate and began to speak:
"We have to get in with him now ..."
"he needs to enter now ... if not it will be impossible ..."
and they made it ...
and at that moment I remember starting to feel ...
the pain began to disappear ... a little ... the strong pain I had in my chest began to disappear ...
I remember the air coming in a little heavier ...
and then I started to have a ... my organs started to stop.
The kidney stopped ...
the liver...
they were stopping ...
This was told to me later ... at the time I did not know what was happening.
I remember getting in the hallway to go to the emergency room ...
all that rush ... and I was seeing my father in despair ...
I started to ...
At that moment my pressure was zero ... when I entered the ICU ...
And I remember ... when I started to black out ... at this moment ...
I started to hear them saying that my brain had stopped ... that ...
Could you see at this moment?
I could hear everything, I could not answer anymore...
I could only stay quiet and a little desperate looking at my father ... again ...
my father started to turn white, started to turn pale, he began to cry ...
and I could not move anymore ...
but I was still seeing everything.
I was seeing.
A nurse approached and said,
"do not sleep, do not sleep ... stay here ... do not sleep ..."
and at that moment the pain completely disappeared ...
Defibrillator shock again,
the same process again, adrenaline ... in the body ...
and I stopped feeling everything ...
I started to feel very very sleepy ...
a torturous sleepiness ... a torture ...
there was no pain, there was nothing ... I just didn't ...
I just did not sleep...
it was very easy to sleep, I just had to ... I just had ... to let it go.
You said you were fighting against it.
I fought against it because of my father.
Because I saw my father and he was very desperate ...
I wanted to say, "Dad, it's okay ... Dad, relax, everything is okay."
And then he started to cry and ...
he lay on my feet and began to cry ... in the bed, in that rush, until they took him out of the room.
I remember him being taken out of the room ...
and I ... when they took him out of the room I was a bit desperate ...
They said I was in a coma ...
in a coma process ...
From then on did you blacked out?
No, I was seeing everything ...
during the shock ... they starting the process of intubating me ... I was seeing everything ...
seeing everything, seeing the shock ...
and then I began to see more distant ...
I started to see everything from afar, as if I had a lens in front of my eyes
and were seeing everything through it.
It was as if I had entered ... very deep ... inside ... and were seeing everything ...
from a more distant point of view, I saw them farther away from me ...
everyone much farther away ...
I could hear noises happening in other hospital rooms ...
sharp noises ...
I listened to conversations happening in other places ...
I had the feeling of ...
and during that all ...
during this confusion and the feeling of being farther away ...
and not really knowing what was happening ...
I ... I heard a ...
a voice ... a very concrete voice ... speaking to me ...
it was not my mother's voice, it was not my father's, it was a female voice ...
who spoke: "relax ... sleep ... sleep ... sleep ..."
and I remember talking to that voice, saying, "I'm not going to sleep, I can not sleep."
"I can not sleep, I can not sleep, my father is next to me,"
"and he's feeling very bad ... I can not sleep."
Then the voice said: "sleep, sleep, relax, let it happen, let it happen" ...
then I remember...much... my father ...
and I say ... "I can not sleep, I can not sleep, I will not sleep ..."
and the voice: "sleep ..."
The sensation was wonderful.
The sensation was incredible.
Until an hour came when they began to intubate me ...
and I tried ... I tried to stay awake ...
thinking of my father...
and then ... I could not resist and I blacked out.
Then, when I blacked out,
I do not remember what happened,
I remember staying ...
it was as if I had been swallowed ...
when I had this sensation of being farther away,
it was as if everything had been covered up and I had really entered somewhere.
then I was blacked out for a while,
I remember waking up ... I do not know how long after,
the medical doctors said it was four or five minutes of that total blackout ...
I was not intubated anymore...
I remember coming back ...
then, when I lifted my body from the mattress ...
I came back at once ... I woke up ...
and...
I looked at my father, who was in the room ...
so I came back and said to him, "Dad, what happened?"
I woke up in a way ...
Do you know when you wake up scared all of a sudden?
When are you having a nightmare and you wake up like receiving a shock?
breathless ... I woke up breathless ... and I said, "Dad, what's going on?"
So I came back and the medical doctors: "he came back, he came back ...", and they went back to that process ...
that I do not know how it is...
but then I went up to the top floor, which is where the ICU of the Heart Hospital is.
On the way the pain was back,
the same time I asked my father what happened I cried out in pain.
"My chest, my chest ... my chest hurts, my chest hurts,
I can't take it, I'm going to die, I'm going to die, I do not want ...
So, the pain was back, I did not understand what was happening,
then I was taken to the third floor,
exam, exam, exam, exam ...
the medical doctor called Pedro, I remember him ... I knew him at that time ...
The fact is that I had a myocarditis,
I had an inflammation in the myocardium,
then it inflamed, the heart swelled, it could not fit in the chest anymore ...
then it would stop beating ... then it would return [to beat].
It stopped and returned to beat.
This was my second cardiac arrest and [second] resuscitation.
They did not know very well what to do ...
because it was a viral and bacterial infection...
and they did not have much knowledge about this virus, about that bacterium.
I was told about this later ... at that time I did not know anything.
But they explained to me later that they had already had this virus, that bacterium there,
I think four or five times in the history of the hospital, in the history of the hospital.
Twice it happened to people of my age, 17, 18 years ...
and twice happened to men over 60 years old.
And I think three or four of those people died.
on the same day they had a heart attack,
and the other person survived ... a boy survived,
using a medicine, a capsule that came from the United States ...
it was a medicine that needed to come from there ...
and it needed to be ordered as soon as possible because it took two days to arrive ...
it cost almost forty thousand dollars ... at the time ...
and we did not have that money ... we did not know what to do, but my father said:
"bring it, we'll find a way ... I do not know how but bring this medicine"
"to try" [to fight infection].
Then they said: "If there is time ..."
My name was already in the queue for the heart transplant ...
I got in the queue as preferential because of my age, something like this ...
and it was kind of everything getting prepaired to do this transplant
or to receive this medicine, one of two options ...
because I was only on the basis of physiological saline.
They did not know which antibiotic to give me ...
because my body could react ...
and ... it was basically this.
In the morning I arrived at the hospital I stayed at the ICU, I had a catheterization ...
and during the catheterization I had a third cardiac arrest.
When they put here the catheter in the vein ...
right here...
I remember asking, "Where are my father and mother?
None of them are going to be here? "
And he came with that thing, he took it off ...
He kept it in his hand ... and I thought, "Where are you going to put it?"
then...nobody said anything, the nurse just gave me her hand, I held her hand ...
and she was trying to calm me down ...
I couldn't do anything...
Then he was going to put it on ... I saw him passing here [in my chest] that brown thing ...
And I thought, "Oh, he's going to put the thing here, wow ... he's going to put the thing ...
Then he took that silver wire, I do not know what that was ...
and stuck it ... the moment he stuck it in my chest I ...
I had a crack, I heard a very loud "peeeee" ...
I felt myself entering a very large wheel, a wheel ...
I felt myself spinning, spinning, spinning, spinning, spinning, spinning ...
and then I do not know
I do not know what is true and what is perhaps a memory ...
- At this moment you lost consciousness? - II lost consciousness.
At the time of puncture, have you lost consciousness?
I lost consciousness and I woke up in my CTI room ... with a catheter here and here.
Was that a third cardiac arrest?
It was the third cardiac arrest.
When I got back, I was already in the room ... alone ...
And I remember ...
I was alone in my room and...
a child entered my room ...
she was about two or three years old ... I think ...
she climbed on my bed...
she talked to me, said something...
she said ... she asked me what I was watching on tv.
then she asked me if, in my room, I could...
get Cartoon Network ...
on my tv.
Then I told her I could.
Then she said, "Can you lend me your remote control? Because on the TV in my room, it's not getting it."
Then I said, "How come you're here alone?"
A child...
Yes, a very small child.
About three years old.
She said, "I'm in the next room ..."
"and ... my tv is not working ..."
"and there is no one there with me."
"I'm alone in my room, can you lend me your remote control?"
Then I said, "Sure ... I'll lend you my remote."
And I gave her the remote control.
Then she asked what problem I had.
Then I said that I did not know ...
Then I said, "And you, what are you doing here?"
And she said: "I have a problem in my heart."
"I was born with this problem and ..."
"I've been here since ever."
Then I said, "you'll be fine."
And she said, "you're going to be fine too ... it's going to be okay."
Then she left ... she went to her room ... and I stayed in mine.
I do not remember very well about this night, after that, I remember that I slept ... after she left ...
and then, when I woke up, I asked a nurse:
"where is the girl who was here? ...
And she said: "what do you want to know?
And I: "there was a girl here, right?"
And she: "this girl was here ..."
"but she has already passed away ..."
"She died yesterday or before yesterday."
The girl had been born in the hospital, and had had this problem in the heart,
she was already born with a heart problem and lived in the hospital her whole life.
Her name was Bruna, I guess.
She had died a day or two before, I do not remember well.
The nurse was a bit shocked by that, too.
This story was kind of forgotten in my head ... but as I am speaking ...
And there ... that was what happened ...
The next morning, after the catheterization ... which was to give the serum straight into my heart ...
I went to do a battery of exams again ... the medical doctors noticed ...
that my heart had deflated,
it had returned to the normal size.
and everything was practically well again,
after the catheterization.
The medical doctors were surprised, they did not understand very well,
Then I began to do millions of exams,
I also remember that a group of people came from a college ...
some other medical doctors ... more doctors came ... other doctors came ...
to see and understand what was happening because I was feeling pretty good that morning...
of the 22nd when I woke up.
I was feeling very well ...
I was feeling great.
The chest pain had ceased,
I had stopped coughing pus and blood
and then they started to investigate and they found that the virus and the bacteria kind of ...
dissolved, because of the serum.
In the same way they appeared, they disappeared.
And then I was happy ... nobody understood very well ...
My father came later,
on that day, the 23rd, appeared "good" on the ...
- On the report? - On the report...
then my father came, my grandmother came, my sister came ... my mother ...
all very happy, crying, my sister crying a lot, so happy,
because they had already been warned that I was going to die ...
they had already said: "He will die perhaps this dawn."
"It's hard to say this to you but maybe you should begin to get prepaired and see how it's going to be for you ..."
"because... "
"we did not do anything, we just put the serum and the catheter."
"and we think that maybe he will not survive this night."
So, when they found me very happy I was not understanding the level ...
of their emotion because I was ...
I had no idea of what had been said to them ...
I said, "stop crying ... stop it."
"don't worry ... everything is okay ..."
"but ... something amazing has happened ... a little child ..."
"I was kind of shocked because of the little child ..."
I told my sister: "A little girl came here ..."
"I'm pretty shocked by her story ..."
but ... my sister said, "I'm shocked by your story."
She died before you saw her, right?
Before ... she died before.
She died before.
And...
I was fine ... I stayed at CTI four more days ...
on the fifth day I went back to the room,
I stayed another twenty-three days in the room ...
taking many medicines, medicines, vaccines ... the days were very painful without being able to really walk.
I was able to walk again ... ten days later ...
and I went back to my house ... and I was doing fine.
After all that.
- You were discharged. - I was discharged.
Rael, about the situation with the child, as soon as you awoke the next day ...
all was clear ... as a memory.
As you talked to the nurse, did she say right away, immediately, what had happened?
No... no.
It was not so?
No ... I talked to the nurse,
and the nurse said, "what girl?"
"What girl?" she asked me, "which girl?"
[I said] "A girl, Bruna ..." No, I did not say the name Bruna because I did not know her name by then...
I said: "a girl with very thin hair, small, white, big eyes, black eyes ..."
She left ... and talked to someone, someone else ...
and they came, she and another nurse ...
and the other nurse asked me, "what happened?"
I said, "It's a girl that... this and this...."
Then she said, "yes, she was hospitalized here ... she was hospitalized here ... she was ..."
They did not want to tell me that she had died, also because of my condition, because I was ...
but they ended up saying that she had ... passed away.
a day or two days before, I do not remember exactly.
This is your experience ... very short, is not it?
Do you have any idea how long it lasted?
No.
You don't, do you?
I have no idea of time.
I remember that by the time I was hearing that female voice,
in that second cardiac arrest,
I have the feeling of having stayed a long time ...
speaking to that female voice ...
and in that wonderful place ...
It's strange to code it because that female voice I do not know whose was it ...
You did not see anything?
I did not.
[you didn't see ] the person. You saw the place.
I felt it.
I could feel her voice in a very profound place,
I could see everything bluer,
I could see everything very blue,
very blue indeed, a blue almost white, so strong.
I had this blue feeling.
And that very voice ... that was ...
as if it were my mother.
I mean ... the comfort ... the fullness ...
it seemed that the voice was an injection of ...
of a tranquility ... equivalent to 10 Rivotril tablets ...
a sensation that was very ... very ...
Did you feel safe?
Totally safe and knowing that if I went with her ... it was all right.
Do you remember anything about this place?
You did not see people, right?
Except for the [hospital] child.
No, I didn't.
At that moment you did not see anyone?
I did not see ... I just heard ... I felt ...
because...
it was as if I had literally entered inside myself, you see?
It seems that the sensation of vision was like that ...
because I had shrunk,
it seems I had diminished ... a thousand times my size ...
and gone back there ... as if I were seeing through a tiny little eye from the inside ...
seeing everything in the outside.
And the sensation is that I was inside this place...
seeing everything very distant...
seeing this configuration ... that exists here ...
seeing it...
much farther.
Rael ...
When we first talked, you said that ...
when you heard "relax, go"
there was a moment when you relaxed.
and that at that moment you apologized to your father.
Yes...
In hour h.
and you commented on something you are not saying now ...
that you felt the body as if it were inside a pool ...
Yes ... oh yes ... totally.
and that you kept seeing ... your father ... I think ...
sorry, I'm not understanding my own words ...
Yes.
as if...
as if the air were made of another matter?
Yes ... I had that feeling.
And you felt you were floating in that room ...
until suddenly you stopped floating and you got up ...
so I'd like you to comment on all of this.
Yes ... the sensation ... physical sensation was as if the air ... as if the matter ...
it was as if that matter ...
If I were in a pool, it was as if the matter were made of another matter.
That was the sensation I had ... at the second cardiac arrest, more than in the others.
[It was a feeling] that the time ... was different.
It was like...
as if I could
If I wanted to, I could fly.
You had that feeling.
That feeling ... if I had the impetus ...
if I ... did like this ... I ... would float.
There was no gravity, none of it, my body would float.
The feeling of floatation was very [strong] ... and [the feeling] of matter being ...
I breathed, I could breathe ...
I had the feeling that something was being provided that kept me alive ...
something like water ...
another liquid ... another ... it was not water ... it was another matter ... that made me float ...
and my relationship within that physical space was another.
My body permeated this "air", as if it were possible to feel this "air" ...
and to float.
And...
the feeling of peace ... that it is related to that sleepness ... extreme sleepness ...
I felt an extreme tranquility ...
I heard this voice ... and I had the sensation ... as if my ...
as if this voice and this place could dissolve my body within that tranquility, you see?
But my father ...
I could not let it dissolve because I saw my father feeling very bad, very sad, very, very sad.
near my feet.
I could see him ...
from within this
this dimension ...
I do not know if dimension is the word ...
from this ... this vacuum ... this ... I do not know ...
Did not you see your own body?
No, I did not see my own body.
My body I could not see.
I saw everything, I heard everything ... even ...
Distant things, right?
very distant ... sharp sounds... echoes ...
Is it as if your hearing had been magnified?
Very ... very enlarged ... very enlarged ... very ...
In the ambulance, when my kidney began to shed blood,
when I started to get into the coma process,
I felt my hearing, my vision ...
my vision even ... it seemed that I could see from many places ...
not only from my ...
It seemed that I could ...
see through the vision of the nurse, through the vision of my father, through the vision of everyone ...
it looked like it was 360 degrees, you know?
The vision was clear, clear ... and I am myopic ... very much myopic ...
and ... at this time I could see very clearly, clearly, crystalline.
I saw in a crystalline way, crystal clear, everything very clear ...
and the smell ... I smelled ...
sometimes came a smell of burnt, sometimes a very strong flower smell sometimes a scent of bush,
sometimes a smell of ether, smell of skin, smell of everything ...
Rael, did anybody tell you in the ambulance or later if you had a seizure?
I had a seizure.
Did you have a seizure?
I was told that later.
When did it happened?
At the second cardiac arrest.
In the ambulance?
Leaving the ambulance.
Leaving the ambulance ... they said I had a seizure.
My father told me later.
I even called him by phone yesterday to know better about all this.
Because I was going to talk to you today.
He said I had this seizure going into Heart Hospital.
I convulsed.
I remembered asking you this question
because it is not so rare for people to say they smell when they have a seizure
and there are those who smell before the crisis.
I did not know that.
It is a smell that they have trouble identifying.
I personally know some of these people.
Yes, that makes sense.
So at least one seizure you had ...
I did.
leaving the ambulancea.
I had a seizure.
I do not know about the other [cardiac arrests], but [in the second] my father was with me ...
so he can tell because he saw me having the seizure.
And inside the hospital, the third time,
when they put the catheter, you didn't have anything? Nothing was told to you? Did not anyone tell you anything?
No ... I do not think so ... I knew that I had a cardiac arrest and that I was reanimated again.
Haven't you ever had a seizure before?
No.
except for this episode...
I have no history of epilepsy, none of it, nothing ...
Nothing that concerns the nervous system.
I had... one year later...
I started to develop a very strong panic syndrome ...
post traumatic.
And then, once...
I was immobilized, inside a bus ...
it was raining ... and I had a very strong panic attack, thinking that I was going to die again ...
thinking there was a possibility that I would die again ...
I was healthy, completely healthy, the heart was great,
but my hand was immobilized like this ...
both of them became hard ... nothing moved ... my mouth warped ...
and I had a very strong panic attack.
But were you conscious... the whole time?
Conscious.
- Didn't you black out in any moment? - Totally conscious.
It was really panic.
After this worst crisis I stayed inside my bedroom for a month, with the light off, door closed ...
I did all the exams, thinking that I could have something ... my mother went with me ... she was afraid ...
my health was perfect, the heart wonderful ... stomach, triglycerides, everything perfect ... it was panic.
So, I started to have this panic ...
which I was able to treat more spiritually.
The psychiatrist gave me Rivotril, Zoloft, back then ...
Lexopran?... I don't remember the name of it...
- Lexapro. - Lexapro... that's it.
I was addicted to Rivotril for a while, very addicted,
I managed, after a year, to stop with Rivotril ...
I entered Buddhism, I began to look for spiritual paths,
and I began to get better from these panic attacks,
which also surfaced on a very dangerous level.
I began to improve with this spirituality and trying to understand it in other ways ...
And did you get rid of the medicine?
I did..
Completely?
Completely.
It's been eight years since I took antidepressants and anxiolytics.
Rael, does your quest for Buddhism and other alternative things have something to do with the experience?
Absolutely sure.
So, you have changed?
Fully.
Tell me about it.. how did you change...
from the near-death experience.
Afetr the near-death experience,
the sensation that was in my body and in my head ...
was of an amplitude ...
I felt much more magnified ... sensorially.
I felt myself... seeing more...
for example I could feel ... people's energy ...
I understood that later.
Before I could realize there was a connexion between one thing and the other [to NDE], it took some time.
But I began to realize that I...
captured the energy of other people...
and it happened in a very strong way.
I started to realize that this happened when I got close to ... certain persons ...
ou when I entered some places...
which I felt they had a kind of energy I could not handle...
and I received ... I received the impact of it all ...
I was very skeptical until then.
Until I've gone through the NDE I was very skeptical.
Iwas not used to pray, I didn't have any contact with...
Any religion?
Religion?... No.
My mother and father always took me to the Catholic Church,
presbyterian, because they were Presbyterians ...
but I always had a...
I used to think... it was not that...
I always had a big issue with the church.
With this church we know, with most of the churches...
And then, with Buddhism, I learned to breathe, I understood that breathing ... is the basis ...
so I began to learn to breathe in Buddhism ...
and to rescue my own energy...
because I thought that I got in touch with so many things... after the NDE...
with so many energies, from so many places...
I have the feeling ... of having penetrated into several ... dimensional layers.
This I speak today ... at the time I did not have this conscience,
it was a very physical thing of Buddhism.
breathing... my panic diminished... breathing... my panic diminished...
then, I began to understand myself more eand more...
I started to...
not only on Buddhism...
I started to go to...
I frequented a lot "umbanda" ... the white "umbanda"...
in Rio de Janeiro, when I moved there...
spiritism ... I started reading a lot about Allan Kardec, I started to read about all possible religions,
I worked on "Ordem Esotérica do Sétimo Raio",
which was an order I discovered in Rio de Janeiro after a while,
and I found out that in all these places I could access ...
access things that brought me positive benefit ...
and that I also returned a benefit ...
both for them and for me,
and I began to understand myself in all this,
to heal my panic once and for all ...
I still have panic...
sometimes it shows up but today I can identify what is happening ...
"it's because of this... that situation happened... I am going to fix that like this..."
I was fully aware of the strength of my NDE when now, ten years after the NDE,
on the 20th or 21st of May, almost the same day ten years later,
I was here at home cleaning and organizing things ...
and I found a box, which came from my room in Avaré,
my father had brought it to me...
because it was left there... and I asked my father: "hey, Dad..."
"those things left in my room [in Avaré]... do you know where they are? Then, please bring them to me."
My father brought them.
Then I decided to take a look on them...
I opened every box, everything that was in my room [in São Paulo], I started to explore what was there...
I found a closed letter that my grandmother had sent me ...
nine years ago.
One year after my NDE she sent me a letter.
She lived in São Paulo and she sent a letter to me in Avaré... a letter... a letter.
So, that letter had not been opened?
That letter had not been opened.
it was untouched... kid thing... I should be thinking of other things...
I just took my grandmother's letter ... and left it in the drawer.
Then, I found this letter...
e na hora em que eu li...
at the time I saw it ... the sealed envelope ...
and written on it "Maria de Lurdes Lopes Barja" ...
and then I read it was for me,, Rafael...
at this moment, my entire body warmed...
I felt a great heat...
I started to see everything kind of silvery ...
I started to see silver points ...
I started to see everything silvery...
Immediately... this region of my head got ... very hot ...
it warmed up... it warmed up a lot...
it looked like someone had put twenty needles here ...
it warmed up...
it warmed up very much and I...
I stayed there, with that feeling, I started to tremble, I started to cry with emotion ...
then I looked at my side ...
and I saw my grandmother's legs, here, by my side ...
then I saw her feet...
I was afraid ... very afraid ...
I saw her materialized feet here ...
I started looking up, up
and I looked at her face.
She was here, looking at me ...
I kept looking at her, not understanding anything, she had her hand on my head, here ...
she had her hand here like this ...
I looked at her face...
she kept looking at my face ...
and I was seeing everything silvery, above her it was silvery, silver points, silver points ...
I had the same sensation I had in that NDE ...
the sensation of seeing her more distant, my room more distant, everything more distant, everything ...
the sensation of not seeing any other place...
then she kept looking at me, I was looking at her...
and she said: "open the letter."
"I love you very much ... open this letter ... I sent it to you ... you did not read it..."
Then I kept looking at her, I was very scared, I was very scared ...
Then... I turned my face to the letter... I read the letter...
I did read the letter...
the moment I finished reading the letter ...
I closed my eyes and...
looked at my side again to see if she was still there... but there was nothing there anymore...
she wasn't there anymore...
and there were beautiful things written in the letter ...
about positivity ... about ...
about ... that everything is alright ... always ... everything is alright ... that everything is alright ...
and this was a confirmation that ...
for me today ... I believe there is an access, an availability of much, do you understand?
You said you felt the presence of beings.
Yes.
At what point did this happen? Can you talk abou this issue?
Yes, I...
it's interesting, because it was not...
I know they were beings but they were not forms of beings ...
I did not see ... I did not see people ... I did not see beings ... I did not see ...
but I felt that there was more information, I do not even know if they were beings ... they were ...
Did you feel the presence of them...?
I felt presences.
I felt much presence.
Not a physical form ... nor a verbal one ... it was different.
The information that came to me came in a different way ...
which is not ... the way we talk here.
I do not know how to explain but I felt records, I felt ...
even glances, I felt glances... I felt...
When the female voice arose, I felt...
it was a female voice that represented ... other things, other ... other interests, it is difficult to verbalize ...
because it was a sensation...
but I felt... glances, maybe...
glances... of many... things.
Or at least that you were not alone there ...?
Loneliness?... Not a chance...
There was... the presence... huge... of a crowd....
Rael, I'd like you to talk about two things, one to make clear,
and this is:
the letter that your grandmother wrote...
your gramma was alive when you had the cardiac arrest, is that right?
Yes... during the NDE yes.
Did she write this letter before or during your illness?
She wrote this letter after my NDE.
After you've been discharged, after you recovered?
One year after.
She sent you this letter?
She sent me this letter.
Then...
when you opened it obviously she had already passed away.
She passed away ... she sent me this letter ... in 2004.
2004.
She passed away...
in 2010.
And I opened this letter in 2014.
Another question I wanted to ask you, Rael, is this:
listening to your story and all the others ...
from these experiences,
we get the impression,
according to what all people have told us,
that your consciousness may be somewhere else at some point.
I wanted to know if, in your opinion, by your report, we can conclude this.
The sensation that...
You were there with a cardiac arrest ...
My pressure was zeroed...
and you were having experiences that you remember very clearly.
and more ... maybe ... living more than any other time I've lived
with the full functioning of my body.
Certainly, the sensation of consciousness, of sharpness, of clarity, of everything is so strong ...
that... sometimes I dream... with this world.
Sometimes I return...
in this gap...
through this gap...
I feel it is a ... I have a sensation it is a gap...
a gap.
Sometimes I return to this sensation.
What makes you think that this rich experience you had
was not a dream or an effect of some drug
that they injected in you, like morphine, which is usually used at such times ...
Can you make a differentiation?
I can.
Do you think it was not a dream nor the effect of some drug...?
It was not,
It is very different.
Why do you say that?
I dream a lot at night...
I go to sleep, and I always wake up and think: "wow, I dreamed of such a thing"...
I'm not one of those people who do not dream.
You dream and you remember...
I dream, I remember and I think: "wow, I am going to call that person because I dreamed about this."
"wow, I had this dream...", "what is the meaning of it...?"
I'm well connected with that ... I'm very alert.
And the sensation I have...
is...
that I lived that experience because,
the first time, when I had the first cardiac arrest, they didn't give me anything ...
they didn't give me anything by then.
It was just that thing ...
it was a very small town ... the situation was almost precarious ... it was dawn ... there were not many people ...
they said... it is really an emergency...
they did not give me anything, because they did not know what they could give ...
and I remember ... the sensation is different ... because I remember my mother ...
I remember her position, my father's position ...
and everything I say is exactly like what they tell me ... that happened.
What I saw...
They confirmed...?
They confirm.
I spoke with my father yesterday on the phone and he confirmed everything.
The question he is asking I believe concerns ... the moment of ...
the second cardiac arrest, when you had the NDE.
Yes...
this real physical sensation, when we really feel something ...
when we really have a physical access ...
an access...
like jumping from a...
When I go to "Chapada dos Veadeiros" ...
and I jump ten meters high from a waterfall and I fall in the water ...
this physical... sensation...
of the shock, of the sun, when you fall in the water ... the temperature change of the your body...
these are very palpable things.
I believe it was real ...
because of the pure physical sensation ... the memory of my body, the memory of my mind, of my physique,
the memory... because of this memory that we know that...
What did you tell that your father and your mother confirmed?
Her position, for example, in any moment...
They say that because you were not able to have seen this?
Yes, and...
When they confirm ... it is because they knew you were unconscious, right?
Because ... I doubted it myself.
I kept asking ... I asked ... "I was ... I saw ... I saw you, Mom ..."
"you were here... by the bed..."
"by the bed... when the stretcher began to move, when they began to give me the shock"
"you were following me..."
"you and the neighbor... and they told you to leave the room...
and you went to another place and I remember seeing you..."
you were like that... and like that..."
the same with my father... "I left the ambulance... you left it by this way..."
"You accompanied me to a certain point ..."
And in their opinion you could not have seen ...
That's what I wanted to confirm.
In their opinion I...
You were unconscious... after a seizure...
Yes, they noticed my look...
a look of who is totally unplugged...
of who is out... they saw I was...
I did not answer ... for them I was unconscious ... somewhere else.
Did they confirm everything you said ... and that you could not have said?
Exactly...
Because you were unconscious.
I couldn't talk...
I couldn't move my finger like that.
Perfect.
All this in the second cardiac arrest?
In the second, it was more powerful, but in the first one I also have memories of my mother...
[in the first one] this little access was not so strong...
because I stayed less time unconscious...
I didn't get in a coma...
all this in the first cardiac arrest.
But when you saw your mother did you see her as if you were out of your body?
From a different point of view?
No.
Não, I saw her with this vision 3D, that I don't know if it is...
And supposedly you could not see...
No.
For your parents you were telling the truth but how could you know all that? "
I...
Supposedly you could not see...
I could not see...
but the sensation I have is not that I saw her from somewhere ... from above ... or ...
You were seeing her?
The sensation I have is that I was seeing...
From where you were?
that I was seeing all there...
that if I wanted to see the doctor and my mother at the same time, I would see.
Do you understand? I remember everything.
But was it a vision without origin or its origin was your body?
No... It was without origin.
It was as if...
If I were to describe physically, it was as if my body were lying down ...
and I was standing...
my body here and I standing here, on top of my body.
Really standing.
Standing, on top of my body, and seeing all like this.
Do you understand? As if I were standing on top of it.
It wasn't...
I didn't see from this point of view, for example, from lying on the bed..
I didn't have this vision.
I saw... as if I were standing.
With full mastery of the visual field?
Exactly... with full mastery.
Although you were lying down and probably unconscious.
Yes.
you said you had this kind of vision - a little bit - also in the first cardiac arrest, is that right?
Also in the first one... in the first... with my mother... that's when everything began...
- That is... he had two NDEs. - Yes.
In the first cardiac arrest I had the same sensation...
but it was shorter... because...
the pain was back, my body responded quicker on the first cardiac arrest.
The second one was... more powerful.
I entered the hospital virtually dead... he Heart Hospital.
Having lived this experience, this NDE...
the feeling I have is that...
what I think I would like to tell everybody is...
is that I didn't have this consciousness... until this moment when I am here talking to you about this.
And neither... how much...
this maybe important... for something... for someone... or for everyone.
But when I spoke ... with Carlos the first time on the phone, I hung up ...
I do not usually tell this story ...
I don't... I don't tell around...
I tell it... usually when...
someone speaks about something [connected]... usually not a friend of mine...
many of my friends don't know anything about my experience.
they don't know I've been through this...
many of them don't know, they have no idea... I never talked to them about this...
but when I hung up the phone after talking to him I kept thinking ...
that maybe this is ... very important to me ...
to have the opportunity of speaking about this...
and to have the opportunity of...
To speak about death is tough...
It is hard for people to hear about this...
for everyone, for every human being.
It is tough to speak about death... "someone is going to die"... of course, it is very hard...
losing someone is very complicated...
but... we are alive...
and we can die...
and...
it is okay...
everything is okay...
they are processes...
the sensation I have... about staying alive is that I stayed alive for many reasons...
maybe to talk about it...
that everything is okay...
regardless of whether you are materialized here ...
because the feeling I have is that I dematerialized and materialized.
I had this opportunity ...
this chance...
to materialize and dematerialize for a while ...
and...
and I feel that this access is allowed...
for us who are alive regardless of whether you almost die or not.
I have much...
this sensation... of tranquility...
of depth...
and of profound love that I felt during the NDE.
It is available... even if... you didn't have an NDE.
What a story, huh?
If you liked, please subscribe to our channel,
click "like", share our videos,
make comments...
and if you have any doubt...
or if you have been through an NDE and would like to share your story with the world,
please write to us.
Our email is
afterallwhatarewe@gmail.com
This is a new frontier of human knowledge.
Let's explore it together?
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