It all starts with the question: How do you find information about sex?
Is that what you asked? Yeah! I'm Peter. This is Lindsay. Hi, and this is Stacks and Facts.
So this, today, as you can see we are doing a thing that is different; this different thing is that we are having a guest
person, and this guest person is Dr.
Lindsey Doe: clinical sexologist, and host of the YouTube channel Sexplanations, which you should go watch.
Probably you've already seen, but go watch it some more. And this is Lina. Hi, Lina!
Lindsey: Cue Dog!
Hi
Lindsey is a clinical sexologist and does all kinds of things that help people find information
about sex, and so I figured it would be worth it to talk to her about what
that looks like, and how people go about doing that and how she, as a
professional does that for herself and for others! Lindsey: Oooh, thanks!
Peter: Hey, no problem. Okay, so my first question for you is: How
have you found that people go about finding information about sex to out the course of their lives
and does that maybe change on like where they are?
Yes, it changes depending on where they are and they usually go find it from
their community members, peers, teachers
resources like the internet, magazines,
television, radio, etc...
And I think that's why people with
disabilities are so important to me: because they have less access to that.
If they're constantly being supervised by a caregiver,
or if they have limitations to their ability to hear or see things that their peers are exchanging,
then they're limited in their sexual education.
Peter: Mm, that's an excellent point, yeah.
Cuz a lot of the times when we think about sex ed -- so we think about
Institutional sex ed I think a lot of the time so like the stuff that you get in school or the stuff that you get
Well, yeah in school typically--
Lindsey: And I didn't miss that! Peter: You kind of did!
But we don't often think about
those other things -- the things that you did list! Like the fact that a lot of times when we get
Education about sex or when we get information about sex, whether it's reliable or not, it tends to come from like our friends.
There's this great podcast, or I don't know if it was a podcast, was probably just like This American Life, that was talking about
how boys, as they are hitting puberty,
rely on each other for information about sex as if they're the experts...
Lindsey: Mm-hmm Peter: ...which I think is hilarious,
But I feel like that probably has certain negative impacts on how people like
how people then decide to go and get sex [information]
Continuing on in their lives as they get older.
Lindsey: We're having an animal menagerie here...
It's fine, everything's fine, Lindsey has animals!
So you just talked about how like folks with disabilities have all of these issues where they don't have nearly as many resources
to get good information
about sex and about sexuality.
What are their barriers do you think exist out there for when people want to learn about this fairly important topic?
Lindsey: So I think that it applies to all isolated groups, individuals, if they don't have a community around them
that's exchanging things like inside jokes, or double entendre, etc
they miss out on a lot of nuanced sex education; and the resources available to them
would be people like you
other individuals that are really striving to disseminate information
either via libraries or the Internet;
YouTube is such a valuable resource what I provide online is the channel called Sexplanations that gives accessible, free
education that's comprehensive to anyone else who is able to log on. I also think that...
Talking with a trusted adult rather, than a peer who's flying by the seat of their pants, is a way to go.
But there ARE peers who are educated, and they can do that through groups like Planned Parenthood or a local nonprofit
organization, or a for-profit organization that specializes in sexual health and wellness
Peter: Nice, yeah, I really like the fact that you mentioned
trusted adults, because when I first started my program, back in...
last year, this time last year, I designed a research study that evaluated how
libraries could help with sex education specifically
And in the process of doing it -- was pretty great -- in the process of doing that I did my annotated, bib[liography],
and one of the papers that I found was
It looked at how
kids rated the
reliability of
sources of information for sex ed...
Lindsey: Mmm!
Peter: Yeah! And so even though kids, like you ask them, and like as a child or like a young adult
you might be like, "I would never go to my parents for sex [ed]," it turns out that most kids actually really
believe the stuff that their parents tell them and they see their parents as one of like the
trusted sources for good sex education. So if you're a parent have that talk with your kid, hey?
Lindsey: Hey?
Peter: Hey?
So when thinking about looking for information about sex ed, what are some barriers that exist, that you
think maybe people don't realize exist while they're going looking for it?
Lindsey: I mean, the most obvious is that it's not there -- someone has put up a political structure to prevent access
That it's not accurate, or worse that it's false;
that someone is actively lying to them...
Part of me thinks that
Almost our entire culture is a barrier to
sex education! This idea of modesty is something I've been thinking a lot about as a barrier;
why do we have modesty? How does that serve us now? I want us to live in a culture that can
give ourselves
compliments and have high self esteem, and for that to not be shameful because I also think that then we can have conversations about a
our poop, and our vaginas, and just openly discuss our bodies and our experiences so that then we all have this hydraulic lift of
improvement, rather than this shame and secrecy that keeps us afraid that our bodies or our personalities aren't normal.
And loveable.
Peter: Definitely, and I think that's a major thing like for me in my own like belief system
the importance of information and the role that it plays in
public health, for example!
Like, people think that medicine is all about like taking a pill or getting enough exercise or things like these.
But I think another
Important part of it is, like, having the information and being able to -- being able to, and willing to find the information that you need
So that you know what to do to take care of yourself! Like if we can get ourselves to talk about sex,
and I say this all the time, I said on your podcast the other day: It's important to have people that you can talk about
sex with, in an environment where you're not actually having sex because it helps normalize the idea
That this is a thing that people do
And so, when it comes time -- like, you find a weird spot on your penis you feel comfortable going to your doctor and
saying, "hey doc. I have this spot on my penis, and I don't know what it is,"
or, if you have really intense cramps, or if you perhaps are
Having your first period and you don't know who to talk about that with... Like,
when other people talk about it -- when you see other people talk about it, and they model that good behavior
(good behavior subjective term, it's fine) like it gives them permission to
talk about things like that...
Lindsey: mm-hmm
Peter: Which I think helps with the information seeking process.
Lindsey: What do you think are the barriers?
I think the majority of the barriers that I really care about are...
... institutionalized? So for example,
a place in a particular part of the US
where THEY say that you can only teach THESE methods of contraception;
and that other methods are either
not reliable, and they teach that it's less reliable than it actually is --
or,
that it is inherently wrong to use contraception, even though we know that, like,
when you provide people with contraception,
So many other things in their lives go right.
Yeah, because I think things like -- that when you have a really bad foundation a fundamental foundation of
knowledge for a sex ed, it makes a domino effect.
Lindsey: mm-hmm.
Peter: So if the parents don't know the good sex ed, the kids aren't going to learn it either, if
we already know that those are the sources that they trust for it.
But that's why I think YouTube's great because
you get to address the shortcomings, and I get to address the shortcomings and like folks like Hannah Witton and...
Lindsey: Stevie Boebi, Shannon Boodram!
Peter: They they contribute to a body of alternate sources of information, so that's pretty cool.
Now, as an educator, how do you go about finding information about sex and sexuality?
Particularly now that you're not -- because you had been in academia, but now that you're not, how do you stay up-to-date?
How do you go and find more information?
Lindsey: The comment section of my videos is a really good place actually to have that dialogue
where I am learning and they are learning.
Paulo Freire wrote pedagogy of the oppressed, and he said that the best
education style is when the teacher and the student are both learning,
and I REALLY value that, that problem posing,
"let's keep growing," so it's not necessarily coming from textbooks or research.
It's coming from a lot of human experiences: people pushing on me saying that's not how my body looks, or
That's not how my body works, and then I can do some investigation and find out, "Okay,
what what is the science behind this? What is
the research saying? how do we triangulate that, so that it's not just the
quantitative study or the qualitative study, but it's also the human being?" And then my own
experiential knowledge...
Triangulate! Squiggy! Pull it all in!
Peter: For sure for sure, and I really like that you mentioned that idea of
privileging the voices of the folks that you're teaching to
or even teaching about.
So in my program,
at UBC we talk a lot about... Like, we have a -- we have a concentration a curriculum concentration called the First Nations curriculum concentration.
And I think that's really valuable, especially for a program like Information studies, where we are so wrapped up in academia
Looking at the... for lack of a better term at the moment, "Western Way,"
of thinking about things that we don't really...
... consider even the fact that people conceptualize things very differently in different cultures!
A great example that comes to mind that isn't necessarily sex ed related, but there's this so everyone knows doing Dewey Decimal
That's what you go like you go to a library and you see the Dewey Decimal System as a way to classify information
And the holdings of a library.
If you go to a university you'll see that it's classified by Library of Congress classification system.
Lindsey: Okay!
Peter: now You know!
Lindsey: now I know!
But both of these were made by like, old white dudes
in the prime of their lives, and it privileges the information that they had to work with while they were developing their collections.
But that's not the only...
Those aren't the only classification systems that exist! Recently, like in the past I want to say 30 years,
there's been the system called the xwi7xwa (pronounced hway-hwah)
classification system, and that has developed to
help organize information according to
indigenous perspectives!
Lindsey: Cool!
Peter: So yeah, so instead of organizing things like according to
say, oh it's a science, or it's an art, or it's a...
Lindsey: Alphabet!
Peter: Alphabet! Or it's a
piece of literature instead you look at perhaps the people that the information comes from first or you look at the
geographic area or the territory where the information comes from.
Because if you're looking for information about you know indigenous rights and cultures and things like that,
That's gonna be a more important first step that you take.
Lindsey: THAT'S SO COOL.
Peter: Right?! So at some point
I'm gonna talk to somebody about that
hopefully, on this channel because it's so interesting and I cannot do it justice. And also I probably shouldn't speak for them
I'd rather provide them a platform!
But yeah, so there's things like that so when you say you go to the comments section
And you see what people are saying as like kind of a first step. I think that's super important so yay
Now that you're not in academia
What are some barriers that you see when you try and find information for your profession or for this field?
Lindsey: I think even when I WAS in academia, the problems were that the research wasn't complete,
or the research wasn't thorough, or...
It was questionable? And
I...
I don't think that even this sample size of 10,000 people speaks for every individual on the planet, and so I
just learned from the get-go that
relying on the articles and the journals was not the way to go.
That I had to be talking to the people, and I had to be on the ground working
and learn that way. So I guess the barriers are that we're human beings and we can only take in and
disseminate so much, and so I
think the greatest message that I try to give is
teaching people how to learn "how to learn," so that they're constantly in a state of
curiosity, and pushing what they know to be more, or to be different, or to be better -- so that no one is in this
stagnant space of, "I know that this body has these parts and that is that!" And instead we
push ourselves to have this lifelong exploration of sexuality or whatever the discipline is.
Peter: Do you have any,
like, special recommendations that you can give to folks who want to learn more about sex and sexuality
that they might not think of off the bat?
Lindsey: Sexplanations!
That's right
Youtube.com/sexplanations. Yeah, I think that there are many resources: you can go to the library,
they usually have a sexuality section; you can go to bookstores in that way;
online, if it's not through YouTube there are also websites and blogs!
At universities they often have lectures that you can attend for free regardless of whether or not you're a student or faculty or staff.
So many resources!
Peter: Go check out your Wellness Center at your school - or like the nurse's office or things like that!
UBC for example, this is the shameless plug, has a great Wellness Center, and if you go there, you'll find me maybe
Okay, anyways that's it. Thank you so much for doing this!
Lindsey: You're so welcome.
Peter: If you want to find more of Lindsey, check out her channel like she just plugged, Sexplanations
Also, there's a podcast which is great. I
personally think that lots of the people who have been on it, and who will be on it
who are me, and also not me, are excellent and very entertaining.
So yeah alright, that's it! And...
Oh, what's my sign-off? Oh until--
until next time
Don't forget to ask questions! And....
Lindsey: Don't forget to ask questions!
Peter, whispering: And stay curious.
Lindsey: And stay curious!
Peter: Yeah, see how I did that because they're related okay, bye y'all!
[Exit music plays]
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