E: Hey Whatsup Hello! My name is Emma
E: and today I am here with the one and only,
E: Cassandra Clare. C: Hello!
E: We're here at Book Con in New York City
E: and I'm extremely excited to have you back on my channel.
C: I'm excited to be back!
E: I did interview Cassie back in November
E: so if you want to check out the first part of this interview, I guess,
E: you can check the link below.
C: We'll just consider it a long interview that will stretch over many years. E: Just a really continuous... HAHAHA.
E: So the first question I have is obviously,
E: LORD OF SHADOWS was just released about a week ago.
E: So, in all the excitement, what has the reaction
E: been like for the fans?
C: Ooh, I think this was kind of a game-changer
C: of a book, E: YES.
C: which was the intention.
C: But it's always one of those things
C: you have to kind of brace for
C: because you know the reaction is going to be really big.
C: I'm trying to not spoil anything specific,
C: so I guess I'll just say
C: I think it was a pivot for the world,
C: it takes us to a much darker place.
C: And for me,
C: that's an instrumental piece of taking
C: this full series as one big block of many books
C: that are all like a wall.
C: Each series is like a brick in that wall.
C: And turning us towards this sort of darker story
C: because I know we're heading into
C: THE WICKED POWERS and the end
C: of the whole series all together.
C: And so I know that we're going to go
C: really dark before we can go back,
C: before "our heroes"/team good return to...
C: can, if they do, triumph over evil and return to light.
C: They're gonna have to go through some serious darkness.
E: Yes, of course.
E: So, speaking of this being a "game changer"
E: of a book, you have a really
E: dramatic and heartbreaking death in the end
E: which I think is a very fresh kind of risk for you.
E: So what was it like, writing this game changer?
C: I mean, it was scary!
C: In the sense that I wasn't sure how people would respond.
C: Also, it's an emotional, dark place
C: I've almost not gone, you know?
C: Jace dies, but I knew he was coming back.
C: It wasn't a place where I was like,
C: I've got to take these characters,
C: their worst fears that I've created them to have these
C: as the things they're most terrified of
C: and make it happen.
C: So for me, that very ending
C: the actual writing of the death scene
C: and the reaction to it
C: was really difficult in terms of
C: getting the emotionality there right.
E: Was it very emotional for you to write?
E: Did you have this planned for a while?
C: I had it planned for a while
C: but it was still hard to write.
C: You get to know characters as you write them
C: and you get to love them and you live in their head,
C: you care about them and you're like,
C: "And now I've got to put them through the ringer."
C: I'm like, this is the worst thing that
C: really in the characters that the POV
C: and the main character that I was mostly focusing on,
C: this is the worst thing that could happen to them.
C: So putting your character through
C: the worst thing they can imagine is REALLY hard.
C: You also feel, just as a writer,
C: you're riding like a bucking bronco
C: trying to throw you off because the emotions
C: are so strong and they're coming so hard.
C: You don't want to overdo it.
C: You don't want it to be like,
C: "And so-and-so screamed NOOOOOO
C: and it was the worst thing that ever happened.
C: They sobbed and they screamed and they pounded the wall..."
C: And you're like, I have to keep all of this controlled
C: because that is how people actually react
C: because shock sets in so quickly.
C: I know when I have had a terrible grief or shock,
C: I know how it goes,
C: I know how that numbing emotion, deadening feeling
C: comes to you, and so you have to write that. And that's tough.
E: And you're gonna make us wait two years
E: to see the extent of it.
C: yEAHHHH hopefully it won't be a numbing,
C: emotional, deadening wait. E: Oh, lovely.
E: So, I think some of, at least my personal favorite parts
E: of your books is how they all intersect
E: and how we have so many references and cameos,
E: so are there any particular scenes that you have written
E: in any of your books so far of THE SHADOWHUNTER CHRONICLES
E: that either include some content
E: or at least allude to past and in Lord of Shadows, future content?
C: You mean like, are there secret scenes that kind of allude to...
E: Yeah, do you have any favorite cameos or references
E: that you've written in the past that you really enjoyed
E: putting in like, "Oh the fans are gonna go crazy over this"?
C: Yeah! There's the appearance of a
C: mysterious green warlock in LORD OF SHADOWS E: Yeah, we're going crazy!
C: We know that he can either be one of two people
C: and I was like "ahahahahaahaah". That was really fun
C: because I was excited to bring that character in
C: and also, I was excited for the speculation about that.
C: And it definitely seeds something significant.
C: And there's lots of little stuff too
C: I loved bringing back Jessamine as a ghost
C: I don't think that's a big spoiler E: That was such a great part.
C: It's so fun to see her again and write her again
C: and actually I also love that Bridget appears
C: and she's like a hundred million years old
C: 'cause everyone is like "WHY IS SHE SO OLD?"
C: And I'm like, "Whatever, there are werewolves in this world,
C: she could be..." I mean there's a reason
C: and it's a really funny reason.
C: It's nice to balance that darkness with lightness
C: and so for me, the fact that Bridget is still around and
C: is like 115 or whatever
C: and also is like, "I like the Lightwoods they are very sexy"
C: I find her hilarious and there's a pretty light, funny reason
C: that she's still around.
C: I know one of my new personal favorites is
C: this faerie boy that you have under lock and key for us
C: that I know you're not gonna spoil anything about
C: Ash! He has a name!
E: Ash! C: I actually think his name,
C: There's a lot of big differences between the ARC and the published book
E: Yes, because I didn't have a name. C: -because we were running on such a tight schedule.
E: This is so exciting for me.
C: I think the fact that he has a name is maybe only in the published book.
E: Yeah I think it's only in the published one.
E: I'm gonna listen to the audiobook soon so I'll get the full run.
E: But yes, very excited for that one.
C: Yeah! Ash is a fun one.
E: Speaking of previous books,
E: one thing I find so interesting is how you do
E: implement them into current books.
E: So do you find any difficulty in taking these characters
E: who we've known as teens
E: and moving past all of the time jumps and the
E: experiences and years we haven't got to fully see
E: and writing them as adults. So for example,
E: do you find any difficulty in preserving 17 year old Jace
E: with 20 something year old Jace
E: but also having him grow up a little bit?
C: I would say yeah, initially it was a little difficult
C: and I had to kind of think,
C: What are the differences? They're gonna be subtle,
C: but they're definitely gonna be there.
C: Jace is a lot less reactive now that he's older,
C: like he definitely used to be one of those people who
C: his reaction time was like that *snaps* E: Yes.
C: He got mad, he got mad immediately.
C: He was upset, he got upset immediately.
C: Now he has actually learned to control his emotions
C: for at least a short period of time.
C: Clary has become, I think, more confident in herself
C: which is something I really like?
C: It's fun because I always felt like I'm writing
C: these characters at a pivotal point in their lives
C: when I was writing TMI.
C: I know that they are becoming the people they will be. E: Yes.
C: And so now I'm like,
C: they are the people they were gonna be.
C: They're not totally, completely cooked,
C: none of us are, maybe ever,
C: but they're definitely way more along that path
C: and so, for me, once I hit what that is, it's really fun.
C: One of the things that was really interesting was
C: actually when I went to write THE INFERNAL DEVICES,
C: Magnus. Because I was like, this Magnus is not our Magnus.
C: This is a Magnus who is 150 years younger.
C: He's gonna be really different, and he was.
C: And it was a really interesting mental adjustment to write
C: him as a little bit more insecure, younger,
C: little more vulnerable, not the guy that we knew.
E: That's very interesting.
E: So you've had a very unique experience with adaptations.
E: We have the CITY OF BONES movie,
E: We have the SHADOWHUNTERS television show on Freeform now.
E: But the one thing we haven't touched yet is a musical.
E: Still holding out for it in my head,
C: You know, I will only tell you that
C: a very famous writer who's book is being developed into a musical
C: reached out to me not long ago
C: to say that they were interested in doing a Shadowhunters musical
C: which they could do actually, because I retain musical rights.
E: Be still my heart.
C: I was like, "Oh my God, Shadowhunters dancing around
C: with steeles, I am so happy"
C: So like, who knows, right?
C: But I will definitely say it has been approached as a possibility.
E: You just gave me so much hope.
E: But out of all of the books,
E: if one of them or all of them were adapted into a musical
E: do you have any scenes that you think would make a
E: a really epic musical number
C: AH AHAHAHHHHA E: or that you could see being like, break into song at this point?
C: Wouldn't that be amazing? Oh my God.
C: Ummmmm E: *way too giddy at the prospect*
C: Now I have to think, I'm just like *gapes*
C: I actually think that for me,
C: THE INFERNAL DEVICES would make the most fun musical
C: because you could have these love songs,
C: you could have this great moving set
C: that was different pieces of London
C: so imagine the scene with like,
C: the first time Jem and Tessa talk on the bridge E: Yes
C: and you've got like some water effects, it would be awesome.
E: You have quite a vision for it already. C: I do!
E: Am I not the only one that's been dreaming of this?
C: Well, once it got brought up to me I was like,
C: "Now this is all I'm thinking about."
E: That is fantastic.
E: So I think another one of the best parts
E: of being a part of the online book community
E: is all of the theorizing that comes around with your books
E: 'cause we just love to delve in and get very analytical and-
C: I know, I love it. E: -observe everything.
E: So have you come across any fan theories that
E: you had seen online that really stood out to you?
E: Any that came true? Any that were utterly ridiculous?
C: There's definitely been ones that have come true.
C: There have definitely been.
C: 'Cause the thing is there's a delicate balance in writing
C: in seeding enough clues so that when something happens
C: it seems inevitable. "Oh of course that's the thing that's happened."
C: You seed enough of those clues,
C: some people are gonna figure that out.
C: So there have definitely been ... You know.
C: People seemed to kind of know there was
C: gonna be a death in LORD OF SHADOWS
C: and a lot of people did guess who.
C: And I thought that was really interesting
C: by sort of process of elimination.
C: And I was like *nods*
C: And also just the arc of that character,
C: I can see ...
C: Basically there was a really great piece of *inaudible*
C: and now I can't remember who wrote it,
C: but basically like, "this is the death that is
C: in many ways, the most ultimately destabilizing death"
C: And that's what you want, you want to destabilize the narrative
C: so that you are moving into a story
C: full of conflict because you know,
C: *inaudible* the tension and conflict is what will ruin.
C: So I was like "Oh, that's really smart and that was fun."
C: Christine comes up with amazing theories E: YES.
C: but sometimes people love them so much
C: that like, for years people have been bugging me
C: that Isabelle is not really related to her parents.
C: And I'm like "She is related to her parents!"
E: I was there for that and it was so great.
C: Every time they do it I'm like "CHRISTINE."
C: Hahah, so funny.
C: I remember reading it and I was like,
C: "This is really smart. Actually, this is awesome."
C: And you know, there are alternate readings of text
C: and I was like, there's nothing in what Christine is saying
C: that couldn't possibly be.
C: It happened not to be, but I was like,
C: "Damn, that was really good."
C: And now for the rest of my life,
C: people are gonna ask me this question.
C: And of course, I am really loving the theories about
C: who Ash is. E: Yeah, I'm excited.
E: We think we're right.
C: You're probably at least a little bit right. E: We'll see. We'll see.
E: Because you have gone through so much change
E: with these characters and these stories,
E: and we have two completed series,
E: you know, although their stories are continuing,
E: the series is finished.
E: So, were there any characters from TMI and TID
E: that you considered killing off
E: but they actually survived in the conclusion?
C: Yes.
C: There definitely were. Simon.
E: Yes I remember Simon from the
E: TALES FROM THE SHADOWHUNTER ACADEMY event
E: when you shocked us all. C: I know,
C: Everyone was like, *shocked gasp*
C: and my friends totally talked me out of that one.
C: And Henry, actually was gonna die
C: And my friends talks me out of that one too. E: Oh wow.
E: You have good friends. C: Yeah,
C: Holly is somewhere being like,
C: "That's right I did you a solid."
C: And I look back on it and I think,
C: "Yeah I'm glad I didn't kill Henry initially."
C: You know, when you're killing characters
C: a lot has to do with consequences.
C: I want to show that there's danger here.
C: I don't want everybody to be too safe.
C: And but she was like "Henry is this
C: kind of character we don't see all that much."
C: He's this kind person, good person,
C: a mild-mannered person and thoughtful,
C: and a person who is kind of intellectual
C: and lives in his head. You don't wanna kill that guy. E: Of course.
C: And I was like, you're right.
C: I was like, I can't do this.
C: I don't even wanna tell you about the Simon intervention, it was bad.
E: I can only imagine. C: My friends were like, "This is not happening."
E: So just one final question, we have recently
E: online at least, your upcoming schedule
E: has been released for your publications.
E: You have so much coming out, I don't know how you do it all.
E: But we have CHAIN OF THORNS next year,
E: we have the first book in THE ELDEST CURSE
E: coming out this year - next year.
E: We have THE MAGESTIRIUM SERIES
E: THE LAST HOURS, end of THE DARK ARTIFICES,
E: THE WICKED POWERS.
E: You've got a lot going on, you're very booked up.
E: So is there any book that you could give us
E: a semi-spoiler for that we haven't heard about yet?
E: 'Cause you have so much coming out
E: and I have no idea how we're gonna wait for it all.
C: I guess I could say in terms of THE ELDEST CURSES
C: which is the Magnus and Alec series,
C: it starts in Paris. E: Ohhh!!
C: Which is really fun and also
C: we do take a visit to The Spiral Labyrinth
C: which is a place I've been wanting to write about for a long time.
C: So the warlock Spiral Labyrinth, that's really fun.
E: That's so exciting.
C: And in terms of LAST HOURS,
C: for me, what's really interesting about THE LAST HOURS
C: which is what I'm working on right now,
C: is this generation of Shadowhunters
C: that are the children of the characters we knew
C: in INFERNAL DEVICES have grown up in a very peaceful time.
C: Unlike pretty much everybody else.
C: Julian and Emma? Scared forever by the dark war.
C: Jace and Clary? Dead parents. Trauma.
C: The Uprising sort of brutalized the younger generation.
C: These kids have grown up without that stuff.
C: And they have grown up in a time of relative peace,
C: very low demon activity
C: and they mostly hang out and have fun.
C: And at the beginning of the book, it's kind of fun
C: because there's these four boys that are friends,
C: Matthew and Thomas and James and Christopher
C: and they have grown up kind of lucky and charmed and happy.
C: And to write about those kind of characters
C: and then kind of plunge them into an
C: adventure/danger that in no way are they prepared for
C: is not a thing I've done before and
C: I'm finding it really fun.
E: That's so great! I love how you're able to
E: find something distinctive about each of these stories
E: set in the same world, that is like so different.
E: One of the things I was thinking about for THE LAST HOURS is
E: this is the first group of a full
E: Shadowhunter parent family which is
E: not a dynamic that we're used to.
C: Yeah, 'cause initially, a lot of these things come out of
C: issues that you have because I looked at it
C: and thought, "Oh my God,
C: there's no way to really traumatize these characters."
C: We know their parents, we know they're good people.
C: And I'm almost not gonna kill them
C: because that's ridiculous.
C: You can't just be like and then I killed
C: Gideon and Sophie and Gabriel and Cecily
C: and Will, much earlier than he even dies anyway,
C: because I needed to traumatize these characters.
C: You can't do that. We know their fates.
C: And also, I think it's kind of cheating.
C: So I'm like, okay I have to face this issue I have
C: which is that these characters have grown up in
C: relative peace and happiness.
C: And I have to make it a feature and not about that.
C: So it's kind of fun. E: That's great.
E: Well, thank you so much, Cassie
E: for being featured on my channel again.
E: LORD OF SHADOWS is out now,
E: be sure you go pick it up and read it
E: and get your heart destroyed.
E: But thank you so much for being on my channel,
E: that is it. Thank you so much for watching E&C: Bye!!
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