The beginnings of transgression
We are here today, behind the scenes of the recording of Edy Star's new CD
this actor, comedian, singer, artist, cabaret and many other things
that made an album in 1974,
a record that several people made songs for him ,this one ,
Caetano, Gil, Jorge Mautner, Sergio Nature, a lot of good people,
and now 43 years later he is making his second album because it is never too late
In the meantime he did a lot. He played as an actor in theatres, he was theatre director, a master of ceremonies of a whorehouse in Madrid for almost 20 years, he did incredible things ...
He sang in the gay ball of the Sugar Loaf.
He did so many things that even God would doubt it
He was part of "Rocky Horror Show", one of the first montages,
and today I'm here because he recorded with Caetano
and today he is recording with my dear Ney Matogrosso.
So it's epic because what they all have in common: Ney, Edy and Caetano is the transgression.
MUSIC: "Do I look like an animal
Or a rare something?
People get moving
I want to sing beautiful
Cuz otherwise I scream
I want you to talk
about people, artists, it could ever be beyond music that inspired you before you become artists.
In my imagination it's radio and "Chanchada" [Brazilian cheeky humour musicals - Ed].
I was waiting for the Chanchada movies.
I loved it, I liked it too much.
I was a preteen like that.
I liked it, I thought it was very funny: Oscarito, Grande Othello,
Violeta Ferraz, all those people.
Everyone was very funny, and the radio ...
In the Chanchada movies we could see the artists. We could visualise what we heard on the radio, right?
So the only way was the magazines and see the artist actually moving was in the Chanchada movies.
At that time TV was a luxury item ... Very few people had.
TV… Not yet ... It didn't exist at that time! In the 50's there was TV, but it was just for a happy few ..
It wasn't for everyone, no. There was in São Paulo ... It really wasn't, my love. I do remember
We can consider that there was no television yet.
I remember that my house, that was poor, it was the only one on the street that had a television. people gathered in my window to watch it, isn't it?
I remember you told me once a wonderful story ...
the first group of gay friends you had,
each one had the name of an artist.
There was Dircinha Batista, Dalva, Grace Kelly ...
Silvinha Chiozzo!
Everyone. And there was something very funny that was the baptism in the square!
Oh, yeah?
Yeah. A name was chosen and had to spin three times. "Give your name in the square, queer! Give your name in the square! Give your name! "There she spun:" I am So-and-so! "
Was it kinda "spiritual entity"?
And he shouted, "My name is So-and-so!"
And that's the name given. From that moment on no one else knew his real male name.
But how old were you back then, Edy?
I was 15, 16 years old.
But you said it was a bit difficult for you before.
It was because I did not know another gay. I did not know any queers,
for me, he only queer in the world was me
Then I bought a book
called "Male Homosexuality", written by Jorge Jayme
He did such a medical thing
and in the end he tells a story, sort of a novel
And every gay ended badly!
And that was a fucking punishment of God!
I'm the only one who's going to die of something
I'm going to have to hang myself
I was the terror on the street
Then when I met the others, I gave a fuck to it
because I saw that there are other people, right?
And I took a different attitude, a stumbling attitude
With razorblades
With razorblades ... with clouts
Then I went to Tabaris da Bahia
and there I saw Evandro de Castro Lima who was a transvestite in Tabaris,
in a woman's bathing suit
he sang, and when he came to the tables if he heard the word queer
he would come back, kick the table, knocked everyone down and finished the show
Then I thought that the word "queer" would cause a blow
so if I was called a queer I would go back,
I'd get a stick,
I did not have the strength to fight, I didn't know how to fight
I would get the first broom stick I saw, and there they gave me the "Bofelia" [butch queen - Ed] nickname
because I was acting "butch", right?
The biggest butch queen that existed there was me.
Was Raul Seixas who had given that nickname to you?
No, Raul found out later.
Because in the street of Raul, there was a straight guy called "Bofélia"
the gang has given him the nickname because he was beaten by me, d'you understand?
And the guy called him Bofelia! Raul heard this case!
I knew there was something about fights that you have been with a razor blade in your mouth, how was that?
When I went to Lapa (in Salvador), when it was more unleashed ...
and there I saw the queers, I learned how
to use the razor blade in my mouth
And you usually talk with the razor blade under your tongue and in case of anything:
"What?", The razor was already really…
"Say it once more!" and the razor blade between the fingers
But how could you talk with a razor blade in your mouth?
Oh, I do not know! But you could, oh you could. I could speak and everybody else too
Of course we couldn't stay that way all night
When there was a meeting, you would show up with the razor blade
"How are you darling? I heard it through the grapevine that you said..." and right there the aggravation had started
and I have learned this razor blade thing, and later I heard about Madam Satan's pocket knife, right?
He was an ace
The rogues of that time! The pocket knife was stuck in a rubber band
the pocket knife was thrown, it opened on the move, it cuts and got right back in your hand closed…
Wow! Rough!
And I was crazy to learn that.. But I was so afraid of pocket knives, just leave me with my razor blade anyway
But I never cut anyone, but I have threatened
to put the razor blade close like this: "Say it again, say bitch!"
Oh I did this a lot
And tell me, Ney, you had a steadier life, isn't it? It was just something with your father, isn't it?
Yeah, my whole problem was my dad, it was with my dad. Not that it was my father, it was with my father.
Then when you have served in the Army, you did come to Rio, didn't you?
Yeah, I came to Rio, I served here, but it didn't happen anything
It was the common story
I knew it there in Mato Grosso. There was only one person that everyone
played voodoo at,
and cursed, and I was too scared to become something like this.
MUSIC: "The sea passes tastefully
its tongue
in the sand
as a good debauched one, cynical that is. Allows to delight herself in these abuses of the sea
The sea passes tastefully ...
Edy, how did you get the insight of the androgyny thing and how to transvestite yourself, and how to play with it, was it cool, was it possible?
Look, when I had my debut in Praça Mauá (Rio de Janeiro)
I used everything I already did in Bahia, which was effeminate singing, you know?
When it comes a guy that delivers himself, that get loose on the stage, the audience goes crazy
it's always been that way
So I already had this experience in Bahia, when I did it on my debut and kept doing ... I just changed the music and did it my way
What was the story with Liza Minnelli's Oscar?
The Cabaret movie was played
"Cabaret" was the tenth show
that began with all the men dressed in male costumes
It was a revue
The men kept changing, in the end came the women all dressed as a man, and the men all in a female bathing suit
One with the broken heel
another with a fallen wig
but everybody making gestures as if they were giving it a fuck and
as it was Cabaret, I started the show playing Joel Grey
I have the pictures of me playing Joel Grey
and in the end I came in as Liza Minnelli with the final Oscar, singing ...
MUSIC: Do ya wanna see the mansion? Or enjoy some music?
You do not look like straight to me
But if you prefer something visual, everything is fine
We can watch the Steve Reeves movie in reprise
At the same time you were already doing this, and Ney was already rehearsing Secos & Molhados
the Dzi Croquetes came up, and abroad there was David Bowie, Alice Cooper, all those people
In which way, do you think it was the collective unconsciousness of an era, or something, some information
It was a collective unconscious thing
I was going to say the same thing. Amazingly, everyone was expecting the same thing
It's not like the Internet, the information is fast
This is something that people nowadays cannot understand, the information, at that time, the rhythm of life was another, completely different
It was a world movement that suddenly debouch into the Dzi Croquetes
And everyone is caught in this debauchery, it's all they ever wanted, it was a hit
The Dzi Croquettes were happening in Rio de Janeiro and we were happening in São Paulo in parallel without even knowing what the Dzi Croquettes were doing
Tovar was my friend
so I knew that he was doing a show
that the men were dressed as women, but they were not transvestites
it was the only thing I knew, but I never dressed as a woman
True. I did not want to respect that boundary between man and woman, but I like being a man.
I did not want to be a woman, I never wanted to
MUSIC: "Male with M": "I've never seen a snake trail or werewolf scalp, If you run the bug bites, if you stay the bug eats
Because I am a male, because I am a male. Girl I am a male, girl I am a male, and how I am...
This ambiguity thing that has been explored by you, today, 40 years later is the order of the day. There are a lot of boys in their 20s,
artists and non-artists experiencing it
The most impressive is the amount of non-artists
Exactly, yes.
I decided to remain quiet about it
You see boys in dress walking down in Lapa
I saw it here on the beach. I passed by and saw a boy in a long dress on the beach under the sun
I stared him and said to myself: what does it mean?
It's the transgression!
But I think this is a reaction to this straight thinking that is settling in the world
Is the new counterculture somehow? Do you think that...
Yeah, I think so
Despite this globalisation that reduces people so much to something very similar
there's still room for transgression? To go against something ...?
Yeah, we are watching it
We are watching this happen in large numbers!
In addition to this culture, there is also, therefore, a world thing
For example, there is a RuPaul show on television, the American drag,
which has become a must among Brazilian gays
and everyone, in the very young age, everyone watches that, worships that
and begins to create something that formerly it was one thing or another of a culture of "transvestite" yourself
and being drag queen
and there are singers already stepping out of it
such as Pabllo Vitar and others, following this path, making records and everything
Sometimes they are not even homosexuals
they are men dressed as women and they like to dress as women
I think everyone has to express themselves with freedom
In this dressing as a woman thing, I also think there is a certain sort of use of opportunity
"I'm going to get into this trend because it's on fashion."
Yes, it's fashionable, and there are people who does it because they like it
But at the same time, nowadays people are so "locked up" in the closet
and the opportunity to see a character like this
sometimes on the street or doing something
it is also, in my opinion
something fun or even to break a little, Incredible as it may seem...
The most impressive thing is to see these people around
I saw this guy on the beach and no one stepped to him. Nobody messed with him.
In São Paulo, you can find them anywhere, not only on Paulista Avenue, you find people dressed in immense turbans anywhere
In skirts
The Scottish kilt, for example, became fashionable in the city of São Paulo on sunday afternoons
At this time we are living
I just want to warn you: when I wear dress it won't be Marisa's brand no [Brazilian popular clothing brand for women - Ed], it's gonna be a real Yves Saint-Laurent!
Now d'you think it's still possible
You, who are veteran artists who are still doing beautiful things ...
Veterans?
My God!
But doing beautiful things
Ney's 42, I'm 49. I do not know where these veterans are. Okay, you silly?
Does the transgression give you the heat? Oh What a scare!
Of course!
Are you crazy? I do not know you
Of course! So...
I'm on the stage, I'm a performer! I'm an artist that lives in transgression
I find the world nowadays so much straighter than it was
That gives even more guts
...that's still compatible, you know?
I feel that you have not lost this
passion of being on stage, the passion of doing something different,
to add something
You do not repeat yourself, you are doing something always new, different
to mess with people's senses
I think that this is what makes your work so actual
But I don't do it on the purpose of messing with anyone
I do it for my pleasure, right?
and I realise that what gives me pleasure pleases others
But maybe deep down inside,
what gives you pleasure, maybe it's not something you may want
a message you may want to pass, something to poke
Yes, a message of freedom, only freedom
individual freedom, freedom of expression
This saying: "I am libertarian and I am going to do this" ... If I want to do, I do it!
And I say to people; "Do not be satisfied with my manifestation, you have the right to be free"
Singing:"don't dream it! do it!
don't dream it! be it!" "Rock Horror Show", the finale! "Do not dream, be it"
MUSIC: "South America": "Let it run
Any river that rejoices this backwoods
In this brunette land, this heat
This field and this tropical force"
A lot of people think ... Some younger people even find it all started with Google, right?
It all started already on the net
but hey, back then a man wear a wristband, it was a problem,
wearing a red shirt was a problem,
everything was a problem
In fact, often gay people have set a lot of trends
and today even the homophobic guys who does the gay bashing are wearing earrings and so wearing this and that and they don't know
that were the gays that have started it all and Edy
in my old program said something wonderful, even Havaianas sandals weren't appropriated [Brazilian beach flip flops - Ed]
It was a woman's sandals
Exactly
I remember being kicked out of my aunt's house because I went there wearing a pair of Havaianas sandals
A Havaianas sandal stood for me the freedom
of not wearing a leather shoe because you did not walk like this or like that
It was a leather shoes with a tied shoelaces
And I went to my aunt's house feeling like
a free man
When I got there she said: "You leave my house and do not come barefooted."
I did not understand
I did not understand what the problem was with the foot
Exactly. Edy also wore a Hawaiian shirt that was one thing too, with flowers
With flowers, no way! I saw, there was Label
it was a clothing catalogue that was available with price tag , you could order
It was sold in America and people used to bring here
and it was sold on the kiosks as it was costumery
and on the male part of the catalogue there were
those flowered shirts with parrots and whatever
that it was impossible for anyone to wear such a thing, you know?
But did you wear that to perform?
Oh no! It was daily. My show was on the radio
You're talking about the 60's still, right?
Bracelet, earring
No way!
Baby Pignatari, when he visited Bahia,
the millionaire Baby Pignatari, who had tons of lovers
has rented a whole floor in the Hotel da Bahia,
he and his entourage
made a bacchanal,
a lot of people downstairs, and the women showed their breasts (on the balcony)
the crowd shouted, went crazy
and this gentleman wearing bracelet, earring, and he went to Bonfim Church in his Havaianas sandals
and my mom and everyone around: Woman's sandals! He is wearing woman's sandals!
MUSIC: "I am divine, I am wonderful
And I am damned and hot and whoever wants to come and try, cuz I am
Edy Star
Despite all those embarrassing things that you have been through
with the police when you were performing in Cinelandia, the guys took you just to mess with you
just because you were gay, and Ney, too, dodging the censors at the shows
making them wait, when they wanted to talk to you in the end
In spite of all this, the 1970s was the great transforming decade in Brazil, wasn't it?
It was all in the 70's! I think 1978 could already have ended the world!
In 1978! Beatles releases a record and the world come to an end, it ends, because it was repetition. Everything is déjà vu
Everything I watch at the shows today I've already watched in the shows of the 70's, in the concerts of Rogéria, Kamille, Marlene Casanova. We've already seen everything there
And is there anything that you have done that you do not believe you have done? Like this: something very crazy that you did at that time ... "No, no ... I really ..." It was the spirit of the time that made me do..
Do you remember anything like this?
Look, I remember I saw Secos & Molhados photos and I did not think it was me
I did not think it was me because I got lots of photos
And I would look and say, "It's not me"
And doing absurd things.
And you, Edy?
In the 70's, what I do not believe the most, that's the same thing. I'm still the same
It was my daring attitude of chasing men
But you're still the same, right?
I would stand waiting for a chance, the guy was with a girl and whenever he went to the men's room, I joined him and engaged a flirtatious conversation: "Hi! How are you?
Is she your fiancée? Very pretty, Oh, bla bla blade, what you gonna do after here? I'd give my phone number and the worst of all, they rang me after...
This daring went on and on
OMG, I couldn't see a waiter! Until nowadays...
So, in the 70's, I took this daring attitude, which I was somewhat shy
and full of: "OMG I'm gonna die!"
to this day there's you and Rubinho doing my head with it, telling me to stop it and that I have got to change...
Fuck, I turned 80 and everything went all right. I'm going to change now, shit?
Oh! Now!
My dears, I am here...
This kiss I blew was for the guy over there
the cameraman
put the mic down here, As Costinha [A Brazilian known comedian in the 70s very politically incorrect - Ed] would say, it would be such a craze!
Song: Bem Entendidos
Enough of playing around
We're already all settled
arranged, convinced
for a good wit person, a half tease is enough...
My dears, I had the honour to have here with me two very important people.
People that we feel happier, younger, after interviewing these
incredible people, so good with life and who have done so much to open the closets.
Even if they closed a bit today, but, anyway ... I'm very grateful!
I keep opening it, people!
This is MPB All Inclusive! That's all folks! A kiss! See ya!
In the next program...
Caetano Veloso, Edy Star and Ney Matogrosso meet up
Three transgressors
annoy
a lot more
MPB All Inclusive.
English subtitles: Marcel Chapman
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