and I find because of my experience I am so despised the suicidal spirit that's
suicidal those suicidal temptations I despise them I feel like they're so
deceptive and they make themselves that it makes it sounds so reasonable in the
moment it sounds like there's no other way it sounds like it's honorable it
sounds like it's brave
welcome to the focus on the family broadcast helping families thrive lacy
welcome to focus on the family thank you thank you for having it is great to have
you you have a passion for people who don't know the Lord particularly those
who you know the world might say are out of control that rock heavy rock-and-roll
world heavy metal talk about your childhood what was going on for you and
what was driving some of those despair moments well my mom found herself in
physicians many times where she would need you know assistance or help or she
would just we would be in need and and she went as she's trying to struggle to
be strong and take care of everything needs to get taken care of
a lot of the authorities around this seem to not be helpful but to make
things worse and so we kind of grew up with this feeling outcasted in-law sense
and I think the music was a really great way for us to to find our own identity
and creativity and that was just and I noticed that in a lot of poverty
situations like when I went to Rwanda I with World Vision and I saw the kids
there they were dancing and singing and they were so creative and I think a lot
of that that heaviness actually pushes out creativity when we when we use it as
an outlet to deal with a lot of that weight you say in the book that you
wrote the reason that you grew up poor I grew up that way as well how did that
impact you though what did you feel not having the stuff other people had other
children when you went to school what was that like
well you just feel like you're not really part of a lot of the things that
go on you know you just I kind of felt like you know getting bullied and made
fun of for the clothes you wear just being different feeling a sense of
rejection anyway and you kind of want to just discipline
your at school so nobody picks on you you know when you look at what's
happening in schools today that bullying factor there's a lot of that going on I
mean even in our own community here we've had a number of teen suicides
which right at the school that my boys go to and I'm having to have those
discussions with my kids and so often what they've observed is that these
young people are feeling that despair and they don't know where to go with it
that was you you were feeling that sense of despair weren't you yeah yeah you
know I talk about in my book how I had a tragedy happen and my family that I had
my my mom's sister was a teen mom and she had she heard didn't work out with
her boyfriend and they ended up living with us when she was pregnant and she
had her son and he wasn't my cousin and he lived with us and um and when he was
around 3 she met a man they moved to Houston and got married and shortly
after that that man beat my cousin to death so he's abusive anyway we knew he
was abusive at times with it with my aunt and we didn't know he was he would
do something like that and of course when that happened my mom had always
talked to me about God and and whenever that happened she always said he would
God would take care of us and I saw him provide for us along the way but when
that happened I remember thinking I thought God was gonna take care of us
why didn't he take care of my cousin why's he dead and I'm alive and you're
about 9 at the time 9 or 10 10 10 years old and I and I wrote I kept this
thought kept asking I kept thinking why is he dead I'm alive
what happened to him and not me and how how can I honor his death like I
wanted and so I understand this now and I even realized that as I wrote the book
I didn't realize it before that that it was a conscious decision actually made I
didn't realize that I made this choice and God actually helped me as I was
praying when I was writing the book go back to that moment when I chose to stay
sad for him um so like so I so I kind of did this as
a loyalty to his death I I decided I was going to stay sad for him and I actually
became distrustful of people who are happy how can you be happy no Rober
children get beaten to death something's wrong with you you know
you're either naive or something's wrong you know and I you also kind of turned
your back on God right yeah not believe in God anymore I felt like that was a
broken chair people were telling you to sit in is not I didn't feel like and
that made me angry when people would talk about that this is all from the
time you're like 10 to 15 16 right I mean that's early that contemplate such
waiting and heavy concepts but you you were seeing injustice in the world and
feeling you know anything is you're talking about that like I would never
assume that that wasn't a normal thing normal reaction for a ten-year-old
better people say that all the time when I was there in the situation it was so
logical to just ask yourself where's God yeah he's supposed to protect us and
care for us you talk about God all the time being good why not him taking care
of us and then the same thing in us I would say shows you like we're in a we
were in a situation six kids and we're really poor we share everything
everybody's in the same you know if you don't you don't even like for me and
maybe it's a mother mothering thing for me but I can't eat without thinking did
you eat you know I mean it's just since I was little I never was able to so when
my cousin died I can't think well he died why am I not and and I always
thought about death and I always wondered about about why you know how
long we live and how did resolution for that come about because you're young
again thinking of these concepts of why your cousin died at the hands of his you
know your your aunt's boyfriend and your husband and you're already thinking that
through as a 10 year old you're rejecting God because you don't see
justice in the world if God is real and in live there should
be some justice in this world how did you come to kind of accept that bad
things happen in this life well I am I guess I think that's what drew me to
people who actually talked about it and people who actually dealt with it
whether good or bad - I wanted answers I wanted to know truth about about those
things I didn't have good resources you know like when people were suspicious of
of the job you know the jovial kind of life and you know I've related to that
and I'm like yeah like why you know so you'd say what's wrong with those people
that are so happy they're living a lie yes in essence yes and you're identified
with sadness and in fact you mentioned in your book the reason Kurt Cobain's
death and that was one that caught my attention but the fact that it showed
despair you know what was going on in his life here's a guy arguably that was
at the top of his game in music and had a lot of notoriety and it was empty
obviously and that really resonated with you and where you were at how old were
you when Kurt Cobain committed suicide I was 12 and it made an impact on you
right I went from our perspective as fans I believe it was heroic
and now I understand how strange that sounds that it could be heroic from an
outside of that situation perspective and I know that a lot of cult like even
their their cultures who consider suicide her ugh and I find because of my
experience I am so despised the suicidal spirit that's suicidal those suicidal
temptations I despised them I feel like they're so deceptive and they make
themselves that it makes it sounds so reasonable in the moment it sounds like
there's no other way it sounds like it's honorable it sounds like it's Bray
and and it and I and I remember there was a Instagram thing we went around and
my friend Jordan wrote on her arm its brave to live because brave to live and
that's the things that a lot of people don't recognize that in those moments if
you make a choice to continue to live after you've decided that you don't want
to live you can do whatever you want with your life you can hand it over you
can you can go on any kind of adventure you can risk everything you know to look
at that moment of not wanting to live and take it as a place of saying well
let's do something different let's go different direction and and say you know
for me the day I plan to commit suicide having anything I know we're getting had
but having an encounter with God I remember thinking when I let that guy
pray for me always like well I'm just gonna go die well let's let's talk about
it because we're right at that point this despair this path of despair that
you were kind of meandering down because you did you despised happy people and
joyful people I'm sure there weren't many committed Christians that were
giving you the answers that you needed at that moment as a 12 13 year old but
what what was that allure to move into greater despair and even contemplate
taking your own life and doing what you thought would be a brave act like Cobain
right and say okay I'm not enjoying this life I'm gonna end it well we talked
about what got you to that point the message was they came out in a
materialistic time in the 80s where everybody has the end and they're so
full and buoyant and you know and all this kind of like expensive whatever and
they came out looking like homeless people right torn shirts right and they
actually identified with a homeless community like he was celebrated for
having been homeless and living under a bridge he had it he had a song called
under the bridge and um and so to to be celebrated as a poor person who wears
those kind of clothes because that's from the thrift store and who gets made
fun of because you have nothing all of a sudden now you have an identity and you
know yeah we have a voice here and when he
got into being famous you could see in his interviews this trouble he had with
being famous and being notre I like everybody knowing him but him wanting to
be in anybody and everybody person and they kept exalting him and you could see
the struggle in a sense in his interviews and so when when we as fans
what we perceived well when I perceived was that he was saying I'm I don't I
don't want this like this I'm better than you right I'm above you it's so but
I don't know how to like let go of it it's like I'm stuck in short of trapped
in this but that was attractive to you you were identifying with that because
that was you you were living and clothes you got from the thrift store you were
poor your dad wasn't in the picture and so you're identifying how did you again
now you're going to this church how did you end up going to that church on that
day where your life changed my grandmother had your grandmother yes I
was kicked down my home for getting fights with my mom a lot and police were
called several times and and I went live with my grandmother in Mississippi and
that was the last resort for your mom let's put you with a grandma and just
see if she can straighten you out well the police suggested that we find
another place for me and there was that in intense well yeah they were picking
me up for a run away things like that and um and so that we're like just
asking and I'm so thankful you know I always sort of viewed the police as the
enemy because when we would get pulled over my mom wouldn't have the money to
do an inspection sticker and then she'd have to pay that ticket and then we
wouldn't have money for rent and then we get evicted from her house and it was
just this cycle of watch out the police are coming don't you know there's all
six of us shoved in a car on top of each other's laps which we had his tiny
little car which is illegal and so is he's like lay down the police are here
and then of course they come and she gets in trouble and it's just never a
always thought of them as the bad people but whenever they show up to it up at
the house and um now that I look back and they're like you know maybe you
should look at another place to stay and I thought wow you know we really needed
that so you went to Grandma's now how was that when you showed up at Grandma's
house was she all loving it was relieving it was it was it was so
relieving to get out of the environment and being stressful and just starting
over is such a great feeling but you did have some conflict right great well I'm
still struggling with all the things I struggle with but there's a relief in
starting over you know yeah and so then you know I still I'm drawn to those
people I'm hanging out and I'm trying to find ways you know we end up doing drugs
like being bugging drugs and just this days not not doing following the rules
at home the way I'm supposed to and I don't think it was necessarily
vindictive it was just as I had a hard time understanding sometimes just
transitioning is hard anyway and your identity was growing within that
community right yeah well I magnified any little thing in my mind that was
rejection or anything that was a discipline I magnified it in my mind and
said you know just always thinking they they don't love me and and I'm a burden
to them that was a big that's what you felt at that age they don't love me and
I'm a burden yeah that can be devastating to a child yeah you look at
me well I feel like they wanted to do the right thing because they have to do
the right thing I didn't feel like I always a blessing to them if I caused a
burden do you ever think about your behavior being a test of their love to
say we love me even if I am will you still love me in fact you and your
grandma had a bit of a shouting match if I read that correctly in your book there
was one day where the two of you verbally just went after each other and
you were yelling and she started yelled back at you and she didn't stop for an
hour what is it I mean literally just screaming yeah well my husband my
husband my grandfather was in the hospital had her
heart attack earlier that week and she was trying to tell me you know you're
not obeying our rules you can any trouble at school you're doing things
for illegal all this is stressful you're bought your grandfather's in the
hospital he had a heart attack early this week and you're not helping
anything what she's trying to say is your actions affect more than just you
there's more people impacted by your your problems than just you you can't
quit and that's actually good advice for
someone who's depressed to get them take their mind off themselves and focus on
how they can help other people around them but I was looking for a reason in
my life and so I twisted her words from meaning you know from what she meant we
love you you're impacting us because we love you too saying our life would be
better without you which is not that's what you were feeling twisted that in my
mind and which was not true at all because there is no way it would have
been less stressful if I had committed suicide on my family it would have been
more stressful and but I found it to say life would be better without you I'm
gonna take my life I found his selfless reason in that context talk about though
she was gonna outlast you in terms of screaming right I mean that's what
caught my attention you're kind of holding back here a little bit she was
she was determined to out scream you you're screaming at her and she just
decided okay today's the day I'm gonna take you on toe to toe and she then said
you're gonna go to church my punishment for skipping at school that day so what
happened she took you to church she didn't even go in did you
she couldn't because if she did she would talk to people and I could have
gone out and ran away was this a church that she went to yeah okay so she was
regular but she sat in the parking lot she sat was going some of the doors like
if you walk out that door she's right there in the event so you go in what are
you feeling when you walk into this church feeling despair feeling rejected
not feeling loved and your grandmother is forcing you to go to church what are
you thinking when you walk in the door I hate everybody everybody I hated
everybody especially the pastor and he was and I also had this you know felt
like I was an intellectual and was in Mississippi and everybody to me
is like you know they're not educated which is not true
just they just talking about real life I really really feel like what happened in
that church service that got your attention well when he spoke he began to
talk about scenarios that he had been through that were just like I was the
only person in the room and like he was telling my story What did he say
well he talked about different families and the struggles they went through he
talked about the kids you know feeling isolated and having to take on more
responsibility than they need and he talked about how the violence that
happens in those situations and how they become you know they feel all alone and
misunderstood he talked about suicide someone he stopped in the middle of all
that and just start crying and that was really impactful to me because I never
saw to see someone be sad I mean to weep over someone they don't know and to weep
over someone who despairing of life even just his seeing him weep resonated with
me like do you cry like do you have pain in your life like I will listen to you
if I know that you can understand that that's how I feel you know and so for
him to weep stopped me and made me listen and he doesn't know you're there
really and what your issues are he's just speaking to the full audience yeah
and he's saying I feel a heavy heart say anything he just weeping he stopped
talking just weeping and everybody's listening and some you can feel some
people are embarrassed and it's uncomfortable and he says finally he's
wiping his tears he says there's a suicidal spirit in this room he's wiping
his tears he says he just says that and it was just total silence and everybody
realized you know you're crying because you feel like a sense but there's
somebody here who wants to take their life and I was like you know like that
was you yes it was me and he's just wiping his tears and he says please come
up here and let us pray for you whoever you are
God has a plan for your life he doesn't want to die tonight
and he's like white ministers and the man you know I didn't go up there I
wouldn't my pride wouldn't let me go and can you imagine being him I think about
this now he's passed away now how brave it is to say that and have no
one respond right you think you failed you think you just maybe made something
up in your head maybe you know whatever he didn't care he was but somebody
caught you on the way out right yeah what happened
there's a man I still talk to him isn't even count papi papi so he caught you at
the end of the service yeah what'd I say to him and he said I feel like the Lord
wants me to speak to you and he had tears in his eyes too I think he knew I
don't know God knew doesn't matter if he knew I guess but he said I feel like the
Lord wants me to speak to you and he wants you to know that even though
you've never known an earthly father that God will be a better father to you
than any earthly father could ever be and when he said that I thought I don't
need a dad I don't need it I don't need a man in my life I had hated men heywhy
mistrusted been especially older men that were strangers and he's looking at
me the first thing is he looked at me with such love yeah like I never saw
pure no just love in a strange man's eyes directed at me like he knew me you
know and I was like thinking I don't need a dad and he and then he's he spoke
and he said God has seen you when you cry yourself to sleep at night and he
said you've been rehearsing your pain there's been pain in your heart from
your own sins and the sins of other people committed against you and your
family and but I want you to know Jesus died on the cross to take the sins of
the world on myself so he took the effect of the sin he took our pain so we
don't have to carry it in us and he said can I please pray for you
and ask Jesus to take the pain out of your heart and I was just like at that
moment where I'm like I'm either gonna go die or I'm gonna wait a minute and
let this guy pray for me and how can he know all these things and I finally was
like this flicker of like of receptiveness came a little spark I was
like okay you can pray why wasn't that something
pray see God huh yeah I mean that crack in the door
your heart opened up well I was such a outspoken atheist and I was like unless
I saw for myself I was not gonna believe and so I love that God is just he knows
what we need and he's so kind and it still took a choice for me to say you
know I'm gonna let you pray for me and so he put his hand on my shoulder began
to pray and he said got a pretty wrap your arms around this girl you created
and when he did that I felt like God showed up right in front of me and lacy
I think this is a good place to acknowledge that change the beginning of
the change but I think people are gonna benefit to hear more of your story and
how God began to probably the best way to say it is just remove the gunk in
your life it would that be fair yeah and he began to change you you didn't change
overnight you still had issues to deal with I think so often people who have
that transformation think tomorrow wake up and everything will be right and I'll
no longer be captivated by those sins that have ensnared me that's not
typically what happens in fact what typically happens is it becomes more of
a fight that those things that ensnare you become even more difficult if we can
let's come back next time and continue this discussion and talk about how God
helped you along the journey gave you a heart for the center which I love and we
haven't been able to talk about that yet but I want to talk about why you
continued then in rock music to reach people for the Lord in an environment
most Christians would say rod don't go there but you're doing it and I want to
lift that up lacy I can't wait to talk to you next time I am excited to hear
how God has worked in your life let's do it huh thank you hey I'm John fuller and
thanks for watching get more info about focus over here and more from our guests
over there and be sure to subscribe to our channel as well
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