I'm Guy Zyskind, co-founder and CEO of Enigma.
Enigma is building is the platform for privacy-preserving smart contracts.
We call these 'secret contracts' because nodes in the network are actually computing
over encrypted data, which is data that they don't see.
This is in contrast to public blockchains like Ethereum and pretty much everything else.
My background is born in Israel, raised in Israel.
Moved, like, five years ago to the States, went to grad school at MIT.
That's really where I got interested in blockchain and intersection of privacy.
I published a few papers, one of them was the Enigma white paper, which was the predecessor
to the platform that we've been building today.
Cointelegraph: So, can you tell me a bit about your work at MIT?
I saw on the website that you teach a class on blockchain there?
GZ: Right.
That was a few years ago.
So, it was when the digital currency initiative was formed, and we were like, we have great
students, great talent.
There was a few of us: me, Madars [Virza] from Zcash and few others were talking about
like, you know, we need more people working on blockchain at MIT and we said, "Okay,
let's open a class."
So, I taught a class together with one of the head, basically the head developer in
Circle and another person from the DCI, which was very successful and, as I mentioned, published
a few papers on the topic of blockchain privacy.
Cointelegraph: So, how did the students like the class?
Did you have a lot of enthusiasm for blockchain?
GZ: Oh yeah.
We had like, I believe 40 people, which for, like, the first-time class that was arranged
two weeks before the start of the semester, was a really good number.
We got really good projects, so what we did was we taught the students, you know, what
blockchain is, what consensus is.
Ethereum was only beginning, so we didn't teach it as much Ethereum as we did with Bitcoin,
but we let people experiment a little bit with Serpent back then — that was before
Solidity — and with Bitcoin.
And then we had the finals where people presented their projects and that was really cool.
One of the projects — all of the works were great — one of the projects actually became
a paper of its own and one of the first project of the DCI which, I believe, is very, very
cited.
It was about blockchain in the medical industry.
Cointelegraph: So, do you see MIT offering this class more in the future or was this
like a one-time thing a few years ago?
GZ: I know that after we taught it, there was a bit of a break, but from what I've
heard recently, the class is now returning and there's actually even more people working
on it and more researchers.
Blockchain at MIT has really evolved in those spheres, which is amazing.
Cointelegraph: Are you still working with MIT at all or are you just working with Enigma
now, full time?
GZ: I am working on Enigma full time.
We are affiliated to MIT, so MIT, through the E14 fund and the Engine fund have invested
in us.
My professor, my thesis advisor Sandy Pentland is a co-founder and advisor to the company.
We're still, you know, very often at MIT, very connected to the ecosystem, but we're
not directly affiliated to the MIT today.
Cointelegraph: My next question is, on your website profile it says you're a Bitcoin
evangelist, so what are you doing at Ethereum meetup today?
GZ: Well, I'm not a Bitcoin maximalist.
I'm pro-decentralization, basically.
So, I got hooked on Bitcoin because of the idea that you can do consensus at scale, at
internet scale for the first time, that's what took me in Bitcoin.
And, you know, I'm very much pro-Ethereum, pro-whatever blockchain that can feed those
kind of ideals.
Cointelegraph: So, when's the first time you heard the word 'Bitcoin'?
When's the first time cryptocurrency became a real concept to you?
GZ: That's an unfortunate story.
So it was 2010.
We had, like, our own geeky, closed IRC group of people and my friend was like, "Oh, there's
that cool thing Bitcoin, you should download it and we should start mining."
And we were all like, "Yeah, sure, forget about it," and this was 2010.
So, could have been really interesting.
I seriously got into it around 2013, so I started working on it in 2012.
2013 was really when I got really hooked and since then, I've been working on it full
time.
Cointelegraph: My next question is someone — I guess, I don't know if you call yourself
a blockchain expert, but you know a lot about blockchain since you taught a course on it
— I was wondering if you could explain kind of in layman's terms the difference between
the Ethereum blockchain and the Bitcoin blockchain.
GZ: Sure.
I mean, actually, you know, when Ethereum started, people were saying Bitcoin does not
allow it to do any type of computation, any type of application.
It's only mildly true.
It's true that Ethereum built a way to build more kinds of applications than just sending
payments.
I still think that both Bitcoin and Ethereum are basically giving us internet-scale consensus.
So, having a system where you have different actors, different machines that can reach
the same conclusion on some problem — in Bitcoin the problem is starting the ledger
— in a way that everyone agrees, even if they are dishonest or malicious.
To me, the big difference between Ethereum and Bitcoin is the ecosystem.
Ethereum really made it possible and accessible for developers to start developing applications
that can run not in one place, but in many places at once.
Cointelegraph: My next question for you is about Enigma's recent partnership with Intel.
Could you just talk a little bit about that, what you're doing with Intel, what they
are doing in the blockchain industry?
GZ: Sure.
So, basically, what we offer — what we are working on and focusing on, that others are
not — is to create a scalable, privacy-preserving smart contracts.
So, right now, when you look at blockchains, the way they've been developed — Ethereum
included — is that you take a computation and verification and you do it at the same
place.
So, in Ethereum, if you have an application running as a smart contract on the blockchain,
basically, every node in the network has to run every computation and validate that computation,
which is very, very costly.
So, we're trying to split that and we're trying to make sure that all computations
that are happening are working on data that the nodes themselves cannot see.
There are several ways to do it.
There are hardware-assisted ways and there are purely cryptographic ways.
At Enigma, we're developing both, because we want to give developers a choice.
When it comes to hardware system techniques, that's known as trusted execution environments,
Intel has been developing one of the leading examples of that, which is called the 'Intel
SGX.'
And we used that to build our first situation of testnet and we partner with Intel together
to develop that farther, to see how far this technology can go, how helpful it can be for
Enigma and for blockchains in general and also to continue research on how we can improve
the systems and even make them more trustless and permissionless.
Cointelegraph: Another thing that I read online while looking up questions about you, there
is Enigma and there is Catalyst.
What's the difference between the two?
GZ: So, Catalyst was started as some kind of internal project.
Catalyst is basically a tool chain, an open-source tool chain that allows people to do algo-trading
on crypto.
There's a lot of users right now included hedge funds and big players that are using
it.
It started as a fun internal project, but we came to the realization that, in some form
or another, this application somewhere down the road could actually run on Enigma protocol
in a decentralized way.
So, we continued developing that and we still continue to develop that right now.
We have a team dedicated on improving that, but it is not our main focus.
Our main focus is really to build the Enigma protocol.
And the Enigma protocol is basically a privacy-preserving blockchain.
Cointelegraph: And the testnet launched recently?
GZ: Yeah.
The testnet launched a week ago, it's kind of like a developer preview.
So, if you're a developer, you can basically fork it or just clone the depository and basically
install it — there is some kind of test mode that you can start writing and testing
secret contracts.
So, if you're a developer, I would really recommend that you test it out as a full developer
docs and form dedicated for it.
Cointelegraph: Is what you're doing with the secret contract the first of its kind
or are there any other protocols out there that are also trying to do the same thing?
GZ: So, as far as we know, we're the first of our kind.
Definitely, when we started in 2015, that was like the first time privacy-preserving
smart contracts came to even as an idea.
And I believe we have the first implementation in the world right now.
Cointelegraph: Okay, so you didn't end up mining Bitcoin back in 2010, but are you invested
in it now?
Do you hold or do you just not even bother?
GZ: I hold some Bitcoin, I hold some Ethereum.
Obviously, I hold Enigma, that's pretty much it when it comes to the space.
Cointelegraph: So, you don't like to play around with altcoin trading, things like that?
GZ: Honestly, I don't have the bandwidth.
I'm more in this for the tech.
I'm more interested in what we are building.
I'm less in this for investing and I think I'm a really poor investor.
Cointelegraph: In the future, like 10 years down the line — there's a lot of blockchain
protocols out there right now — do you think that any are going to fall by the wayside?
Do you see what's going to be left?
GZ: I think it's safe to say that most protocols won't exist.
Most tokens won't exist.
I think there will be more than one or two winners.
I think there's a place for like 10, 20, maybe even 50.
But what I'm really curious about is to see how protocols and projects will start
merging with each other.
Because, obviously, it's not possible to have 2,000 projects and if you look at the
2014, kind of, bear market, there were all these altcoins of Bitcoin, all these forks,
and most of them didn't survive.
But some did.
So, I think some will survive and those are the ones that are doing a really legit work
and actually advancing the tech and the applications.
Cointelegraph: So, when you taught the class on blockchain, how did you begin?
How did you try to introduce that to students?
You know, like the students that had never heard about word before.
How do you get them into that?
GZ: So, with an example.
I just explain Bitcoin.
I'm just saying, let's say there is a new company, New Corp, okay?
And New Corp says, "We are minting a new kind of money," right?
It's totally not on a database.
And you can transact with it.
We would give $1 to every person in the world and you can start transacting with it.
But, but then, after that point, if you want to buy more, then you're going to have to
start depositing money.
And this is an untrusted company — not a bank, not affiliated with a country.
And I ask people in the class, "Are you comfortable trusting and continuing to pour
money into that kind of system?"
And the answer is always 'no,' by everyone.
And then I start to explain how Bitcoin works in a very high-level way and how, even though
you don't trust one entity, if you have many of them — and you don't trust them
individually — somehow collectively, you can trust them to actually transact and approve
any transaction that you send to people.
And that kind of clicks and from that we go more technical.
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