Plum: What changes things is power --
who has it and how you use it.
And Jennifer knows this.
Lasting change only happens
when the baddies are running scared.
In this episode, Plum was using her new voice,
in a new platform.
And she believes that she's enough,
that she doesn't need to look like Kitty
to have something with weight to say...
Is that a radical notion?
No.
You know what is radical?
Women just accepting what they look like.
Marti Noxon: Something I was very interested in exploring
is zealotry, when you get so full of like zeal for something
that you are a little unregulated.
Plum: Did you guys see the interview?
We did.
Why would draw attention to us
when there's all this violence out there?
Plum: I think it's important to show somebody
gaining power and her voice,
but doing it imperfectly
and really screwing up certain points,
because that's happened.
Happens constantly.
I'm sorry. I-I really am.
We all understand...
Fantastic!
...that your intent was to do good.
It was.
She's gotten her 15 minutes, right?
That's what we all think we want.
She has no idea how to handle that.
Like, she just makes a mess of it.
Come on! I said one interview!
I wrote one blog!
Yeah, and look what it did!
And how many comments have you read?
It's a dopamine thing.
We have such a-a focus on fame in our culture,
like this idea that fame is this end goal.
And, to me, how it changes the way people see you
and how you see yourself can be super damaging,
so, I wanted Plum to experience this on a micro level
and have that be part of the disillusion that --
that sends her into the next chapter.
While Plum is going through her own journey,
I always say that this show is about challenging
the status quo and yourself, but also, in the world,
and all these other characters,
they're all trying to create a revolution,
except for people who really like the status quo,
and those generally are really, really rich people.
Every man who has made something of himself
is now being torn down, because what,
at a party, maybe in an office,
he actually acted, oh, like a man.
I really wanted to also speak to the male experience
of being in the middle of a time that's changing so fast
that you don't know what the rules are anymore.
I have never hit a woman, in my life.
Never raped anybody.
No roofies.
And now, I can't smile at a girl.
One of my other favorite characters is Dom.
He's just kind of lost.
He's not sure how he's supposed to act
or what he's supposed to do,
and, um, I really wanted to send him on a journey, too,
of, like, how does this movement in this moment affect,
you know, men who essentially see themselves
as really decent.
And is he decent, or is he not?
I think when his life doesn't go quite the way
he would've liked it to, and he feels betrayed
by people who aren't very good people
who are getting ahead,
he really starts to question the value of being good.
They're in the middle of a war between women
and the way things have been,
and it's gonna get really ugly,
so they're all trying to figure out what it's all about.
I did want something good,
and I thought I read your signals,
but it was uncool of me to assume, you know?
I got the wrong message, and for that, I'm --
I'm truly sorry.
Plum: This episode is such a roller coaster.
She starts with that high with the interview,
then she gets in that fight and is so low,
and she thinks things are gonna go great again,
seeing this guy, and then, it just does not.
That's -- Let's just slow down...
Okay.
...a little bit.
Okay.
It's gonna feel so good.
Trust me.
What we were interested in getting into
was that gray area,
because, you know, rape and, um, assault
and all these things have been so much
in the public discussion.
I was pushing for a scene that had all the slow-motion agony
of the sexual encounter that doesn't feel consensual.
Doesn't this feel good?
"I didn't want to hurt the other person's feelings"
is a thing that I think s-- especially so many women,
have consented to things, or implicitly consented
with things, that they didn't want to have happen.
[Moans] That was great.
And I don't think that that's just a female issue.
I think it's for all of us.
What we should be doing is empowering women
to say, "No, I don't like that" more.
So, we stepped it out in a way that was very intentional.
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